Lets use Nightwing as an example (since I was using him when it came up).

He had Improved movement with the green square (ignores hindering for movement). Does that mean he can ignore water terrain for movement since it is hindering for movement?

Yeah, I remember there being a big thing about it when IMovement first was mentioned.

Here's one thread

Yes, water is hindering for movement and hindering is ignored when Nightwing is moving.

And before anyone starts with the "this is more complicated" it's the same as before. Leap Climb only use to say ignores hindering terrain for movement, it never said ignores hindering and water terrain for movement.

I think the confusion comes from the color rather than the wording. The square is green so players associate it with green terrain, not the blue.

Green square = ignore green and blue (or other "hindering" terrain) for movement. It may be confusing but that's how it is.

That was the argument my opponent was trying to use

Agreed. But this would hardly be the first time that a non-change to rules/wording generated more confusion/discussion than an actual change.

Yeah, at a glance it seems a reasonable argument. But a familiarity with the relevant descriptions clears up the confusion.

And while I sympathize with those confused, I'm not a fan of changing it now. From the outset, it would just be a redundancy. Now? Individual questions and clarifications/errata ad nauseum ...

Only thing I could think of for some simplicity would be a description on Water that said "Water is considered █ for movment"

In the 2012 PAC, there's a listing that shows all of the Improved symbols and the colored squares associated with it. There are separate symbols to denote "Ignores Hindering Terrain," which is green, and "Ignores Water Terrain," which is blue. Therefore, unless a character has an Improved Movement with the blue block next to it, it cannot ignore water terrain.

Edit: Nevermind. Water terrain is apparently glorified hindering terrain now, according to the rule book. In other words, it no longer has any distinguishing difference from hindering aside from not blocking sight. So yeah, now your Spider-Mans, Hulks, Batmans, and Blue Beetles can move with the grace of a dolphin in water now.

Hmm...the edit appeared between me clicking into the thread and me clicking quote.

Suffice it to say, your response is incorrect, and, as pointed out above, is not a change at all. There's now a symbol instead of the phrase "ignores hindering terrain," but it didn't call out water before either.

Um...those guys ignored water terrain before, too. There was no change.

Out of curiosity, were you not ignoring water terrain with your fliers under the earlier rulebooks? The wording of Leap/Climb was identical to that of Flight.


Actually, though, it is not glorified hindering terrain. Many rulebooks ago, this was the case. (The rulebook defined water terrain under the hindering terrain banner, but it stipulated that it was clear for movement.) Now it is defined as its own separate terrain type.




As for those confused, I'll point out that the new description did include the blue square, people would then be confused about guys like Bonebreaker.

This is the complete non-change I mentioned above. Water terrain had always been limited hindering terrain. The 2012 Rulebook didn't change from the 2011 or 2010 or even FF starter. (Although admittedly I cannot speak for anything farther back than that...)

EDIT: Dammit, ninja'd again!

Having a blue square available was what confused me.

Would there be any reason to ever use improved movement with a blue square? Is there any difference between that and the dolphin symbol?

The dolphin symbol grants the Swim ability.

The swim ability give you IM: Water.

Not every character who can swim ignores hindering?