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So let's say a character with Super Strength is holding an object when they become a Pilot of a vehicle, and are therefore removed from the Map. Does the Object drop where they were? Or do they retain it?
Characters that are removed from the battle map are not affected
by any game effects and may not use their game effects except as stipulated by the effect removing them from the map.
If, however, a character holding an object is defeated or loses the ability to use Super Strength, the character automatically drops the object, which stays in the square the character occupied when it was defeated or the power was lost.
Have they lost the ability to use Super-Strength as they "may not use their game effects"?
aqhoffman- greatest post possibly ever
jtallday- Jon I wouldn't challenge you if I wasn't sure you are wrong cuz I don't have that kind of energy.
Their Super Strength is neither lost or countered when becoming a pilot. It is ignored via the vehicle rules, but you would still have the object being held.
Quote : Originally Posted by Necromagus
When I came on board as RA I brought with me a mission to meet the intent of a power/ability and a firm distaste for exploits or loopholes that circumvented the intention of a rule. That's where the Rules team comes in.
Their Super Strength is neither lost or countered when becoming a pilot. It is ignored via the vehicle rules, but you would still have the object being held.
This was my first thought, due to Outwit. However are you sure because Super Strength is worded a little different, it doesn't say it needs to be countered or lost, just " loses the ability to use Super Strength." And I always get confused by this because "can not use" isn't always the same as "loses the ability to use", but I feel like sometimes it is the same.
aqhoffman- greatest post possibly ever
jtallday- Jon I wouldn't challenge you if I wasn't sure you are wrong cuz I don't have that kind of energy.
This was my first thought, due to Outwit. However are you sure because Super Strength is worded a little different, it doesn't say it needs to be countered or lost, just " loses the ability to use Super Strength." And I always get confused by this because "can not use" isn't always the same as "loses the ability to use", but I feel like sometimes it is the same.
Look at Pulse Wave, it ignores characters powers and abilities just like vehicles. If a character with Super Strength was inside the Pulse Wave range he would not automatically drop the object. Only if he is het and loses the power is the object dropped. Same with getting in a car.
Quote : Originally Posted by Necromagus
When I came on board as RA I brought with me a mission to meet the intent of a power/ability and a firm distaste for exploits or loopholes that circumvented the intention of a rule. That's where the Rules team comes in.
Look at Pulse Wave, it ignores characters powers and abilities just like vehicles. If a character with Super Strength was inside the Pulse Wave range he would not automatically drop the object. Only if he is het and loses the power is the object dropped. Same with getting in a car.
Pulse wave isn't a perfect example since being off the map doesn't "ignore" anything.
"Characters that are removed from the battle map are not affected
by any game effects and may not use their game effects except as stipulated by the effect removing them from the map. "
The word ignore isn't in there. That aside, it is a good example in that like being off the map, pulse wave prevents use / ignores in a similar fashion to being off the map while not "countering" or causing loss of a power. So ya, I agree with MisterId, you don't lose the object unless SS is lost or countered. I'm reading "can use" to be the clix definition of being the same as possess but not possess. So "can use" being "still has a source of" rather than being able to actually use the ability. If outwit and perplex don't drop, I don't think an object would, despite the slightly different wording. My 2 cents
Edit: As an afterthought, there are situations in this game where you "can use" a power, but "can't use" a power. I think is one of them. The reason the object stays is also why nico doesn't pass tests :-) (Had to throw that wrench in the thread)
Pulse wave isn't a perfect example since being off the map doesn't "ignore" anything.
From the Player's Guide:
A character who becomes a vehicle's pilot is removed from the battlefield and placed on the vehicle's character card; all of a pilot's powers and abilities are ignored, unless a game effect specifies it activates when the character is a pilot.
Quote : Originally Posted by Necromagus
When I came on board as RA I brought with me a mission to meet the intent of a power/ability and a firm distaste for exploits or loopholes that circumvented the intention of a rule. That's where the Rules team comes in.
A character who becomes a vehicle's pilot is removed from the battlefield and placed on the vehicle's character card; all of a pilot's powers and abilities are ignored, unless a game effect specifies it activates when the character is a pilot.
Fair enough, I was just reading the "removed from map" bit in the PG. It is a little strange that they would use different words to reiterate the same concept in two different places in the pg.
Look at Pulse Wave, it ignores characters powers and abilities just like vehicles. If a character with Super Strength was inside the Pulse Wave range he would not automatically drop the object. Only if he is het and loses the power is the object dropped. Same with getting in a car.
It's cool with me, and what I was hoping for. But like I said, I always get hung up on "can not use/unable to use/loses the ability to use" etc...
Quote : Originally Posted by rpgambit
Fair enough, I was just reading the "removed from map" bit in the PG. It is a little strange that they would use different words to reiterate the same concept in two different places in the pg.
Haha, welcome to Heroclix. In another game it might be strange, here it's par for the course. Although they have been trying harder lately. notice the removal of "battlefied" from the "Off the map" stuff.
aqhoffman- greatest post possibly ever
jtallday- Jon I wouldn't challenge you if I wasn't sure you are wrong cuz I don't have that kind of energy.
I was just trying to find at what point you stopped turning resources after being removed from the map as well. I could have sworn with SM047 flash and time jump his resource still spun, but apparently with pilots it doesn't.
I was just trying to find at what point you stopped turning resources after being removed from the map as well. I could have sworn with SM047 flash and time jump his resource still spun, but apparently with pilots it doesn't.
With Flash you DID, until that new line about Game Effects, now you don't.
aqhoffman- greatest post possibly ever
jtallday- Jon I wouldn't challenge you if I wasn't sure you are wrong cuz I don't have that kind of energy.
Ah right it used to be "your own powers and abilities" or something along those lines, now its the generic "game effect" bit. Interesting. This...makes my team a lot better...
What if you capture somebody and become a pilot after? 'They go in the back seat?
They are Captured and will stay captured. In order to be rescued the power needs to be Countered, Lost, or they need to be the Target of an attack specifically to rescue. Becoming a pilot does none of those.
Quote : Originally Posted by Necromagus
When I came on board as RA I brought with me a mission to meet the intent of a power/ability and a firm distaste for exploits or loopholes that circumvented the intention of a rule. That's where the Rules team comes in.