Related to this thread http://www.hcrealms.com/forum/showthread.php?t=477328.

Looking at powers that have a mechanic that halves something

First off, the X-Factor Then the powers that are "halved"
So, looking at this, and some of the rulings in that original thread, Charge, Running Shot and Hypersonic Speed, would all Half, then modify since it is the "value" that you are halving.

With Pulse Wave, it's the range, not the range value that you are halving, so it's no halved then modified, it's just the total range, halved.

With Invincible, it's damage dealt, not damage value, so it's the total amount of damage after any modifiers that is then halved and ignored.

I just want to make sure I'm understanding this correctly and share it with others that may be having a hard time grasping this.

Yup. Seems like you have good grasp on what applies when and to which power.

Yes. Just keep in mind that the difference between pulse wave and say running shot is the wording. Running shot replaces the characters movement vallue which is why it is a replacement value. Pw just uses whatever half the characters current range is(mods included) then tells you that is the area of effect. The characters range is itself never replaced

I really feel Damage DEALT is one of the best examples...nobody has a problem with IMPERVIOUS REPLACING the Damage DEALT to 0 AFTER MODIFYING the Damage VALUE with +1 from perplex.

But there will always be lots to choose from with SPs...

Movement distance is effected by Speed Value but Speed Value is not being replaced.

Amount of Healing is half the roll which could be modified before being halved.

Speed Value is REPLACED.

Movement distance is Halved Not Speed Value

Damage Dealt is Half the roll which could be modified before halving.

The attack is AT Half Range even though Range VALUE is not halved, so modifiers again should apply before the Halving.

IceHot is incorrect about Self Preservation, BAMF! and Quantum Teleportation. They are all replacements of their value.

2013 rulebook page 5:

When a character’s
combat value is reduced by half or doubled,
those are also replacement values.

I agree about Quantum Teleportation, but Self Preservation and BAMF! both use the "up to half" language which I believe has been ruled to be a limitation but not a replacement.

I disagree with you.

The context on Quantum Teleportation is only for that one specific attack. If he were some how capable of making a second attack after that one it would be at full range because his range VALUE was never actually halved or replaced.

I don't know about Quantum Teleportaiton. The wording seems closer to Pulse Wave than Running Shot. I'd say it's not a replacement. (Don't you just hate inconsistent wording?)

I feel the need to point out that Impervious doesn't replace the damage dealt with 0. It actually says that what ever the damage dealt is (n), you modify it by -n, so that it will be reduced to 0.

It's important because of powers that state that damage can't be reduced or reduced below X.

And, because damage dealt isn't a combat value, it doesn't care about the rule of 3.

IceHot is correct, it's been confirmed that when "up to" is used, it's a maximum, not a replacement.

A character with a speed of 0 that is given the ability to move "up to 4 squares" can't actually move, because their speed is still 0.

A character with a speed of 9 that's perplexed by +1 and can then move "up to half" of their speed value can move 5 squares, because their speed value is 10 (9+1).

If the same character did something that halved its movement, it would have a movement of 6 (9/2 + 1)

See this thread on Mjolnir's song, which includes the 'up to' wording: http://www.hcrealms.com/forum/showthread.php?t=399485

Note that Quebbster was the original RD who gave a ruling. MisterId confirmed it, though he wasn't an RD at the time.

Playing a game by e-mail post here, I run across a common situation that has nonetheless given me pause:

- (free action) a Character uses Perplex on itself to modify its own Speed value from 9 to 10.
- (power action) same character uses Charge.

"CHARGE Give this character a power action; halve its speed value for the action.
Move this character up to its speed value and then it may be given a close combat
action as a free action. This character ignores knock back."

Keeping in mind the rule of thumb "replace, then modify," I have a question:
How many squares may this character move before its close combat action? Thank you.

Your mistake was made in the bolded line. You do not modify your speed from 9 to 10, you modify it by +1
The Charge halves your speed, from 9 to 5 (half, round up) then you add the modification from your earlier Perplex, for 6 total

So you modify, then, replace, then modify...

Thank you both for you explanation. I am aware that this is how it is commonly played/employed. I noticed in another thread that this ruling/convention has led to other players' questioning it because it lacks intuitive reasoning. The sequential nature of play-by-post got me thinking about the steps involved...

The best way I find to explain it is "floating numbers". When ever you modify a characters value don't look at the number just say "I'm modifying his defense". That modifier is now floating above the character waiting for that value to be used. Now your character is being attacked, Check Replacements (defend) and the Modifiers.

Is this one confirmed ?

I have no problems with all the others, but this one seems a bit odd/strange to me. Is there any reference to the actual difference between range and range value somewhere ?