I haven't gotten to play much with the new set - it disappeared so fast around here, there was zero chance of any Sealed tournaments - so I'd like to hear your opinion. For the purposes of this discussion, please try to forget about Spiral, Shatterstar and the Team Bases. I just want to talk about the basic combat numbers and powers.

Are the characters from the Wolverine and the X-Men set much more powerful than characters close to the same points from the Teen Titans set? How about compared to the Giant-Sized X-Men set?

Do you find the combat values higher overall? For example, in the entire WXM set, only one character has a 7 anywhere on the dial, and that's Toad from the gravity feed, on his last click (compared to 39 figures in the Mutations & Monsters set). Is that noticeable to you? Do you find it hard to compete if you use a force of older characters?

Even without Spiral's trait she is a great fig for her points. I do think that on average the AVs are higher in this set.

I don't even like using older figures to fill in the gaps for theme teams anymore: it just feels as if I'm giving my opponent points. Even if you can hit the newer characters with the older ones, the damage output isn't enough to even matter anymore.

I'm going to try to play some home games with just pre-Supernova sets and see how it feels.

But yes, the power surge (not creep) that started with that JLA Team Base blew out all the fuses when it hit WatX. I shudder to think what the next few sets hold. On the bright side, I am finally getting a good Spider-man. On the dark side, he's probably gonna be killed by all the Precision Strikers out there.

Oh well....

Quite possibly. I got some flack for saying this, but Team Bike Jean is way more powerful at 100 points than figures from just a few sets ago. Running shot, 11 attack, 3 damage Psyblast, and can carry up to 3 friendlies without effecting her speed? That's pretty sick.

Other than those aspects you told us to disregard id say definitely not. There seems ro be a shortage of move and attack powers, especially at top dial. Sidestep is nice but id take a charge or running shot over it any day.

There also seems to be quite a bit fewer damage reducers than normal and more ES/D and combat reflexes. Prolly because mutants tend to have powers focused in one are, so if you can shoot from your eyes or teleport you arent any more durable than a normal guy.

Lastly there seems to be slightly less outwit, PC and perplex. Again because of the nature of mutant powers but also because there is less high level geniuses in the set.

Sidestep is going to be "that" power, in my opinion. The one that everyone shrugs off and ignores and is suddenly incredibly potent with some other figures.

And with the amount of penetrating being handed out, I'd much rather have a higher defense than a lower number with a reducer. Just my two cents.

Side Step and Precision Strike are game changers. That's not my opinion, that's my experience! Both of those powers have already changed every WatX game I've played so far.

And WK was NOT stingy with the new powers in WatX.

I agree that Sidestep is going to get a lot of fans as people discover just how much you can do with it: sidestep then Barrier, sidestep behind cover AFTER shooting, sidestep then clear, sidestep 2 spaces out of hindering terrain... can #062 Beast use Sidestep, the Lunge feat, Close Combat Expert all in one turn?
Yep, I play a lot of Classic Clix at home - everybody gets a random team, where all teams are pre-made with non-carded clix, and we ignore theme rules, relics, resources, all of that. It's a great change from the "All Dressed" version of clix that WK is pumping out. Suddenly Exp Sinestro is terrifying, IC Hercules just won't die, and some pieces that were obsolete when they first arrived (Copperhead, AV Black Panther, Wendigos) are useful again!

Back to the main topic though, is it the increased attack values (WXM Wolverine: 12, GSX Wolverine: 10) that are the biggest change or is there more damage dealing too?

I mean...yes and no.

There's good figures and bad figures in every set, I believe.

For example, last week I played figures from WATXM side-by-side with pieces from Giant-Size X-Men and Web of Spider-Man.

Fantomex and common Deathlok from WATXM, Cable LE and Archangel LE from GSX and the rare Wolverine from Web.

I would say that none of those figures are better than the others. For comparable points, Cable and Fantomex are just as good as one another. They compliment each other nicely, actually.

And those "old, golden age" figures took out two team bases and X-Man.


So, I mean...yes, every set is going to up the ante, and naturally so. This game has to evolve, every game does. Would you want something new if it wasn't inherently slightly better than the old one? Imagine Apple unveiling an iPhone that wasn't better than the old ones...oh wait. They did.

Kidding. But yeah. Sets have to always get better/different. Game has to evolve. That's my point. Take it home, do with it what you will.

That being said, the Wolverine from WoS has an 11.

So it looks like he was strongest in the 90's, put on a little weight when he was running around with X-Force (the leader of a black-ops mutant hit-squad's gotta eat, right? He's a growing boy!) and just TOTALLY let himself go when he got signed by the Avengers.

He's the mutant Jose Reyes.

I think the power level might be over 9000 now, but it still isn't strong enough to beat Frieza. Maybe we should almost kill the game a few times and heal it after each time, then see how high its power level is.

There.is a big jump from MaM to WatX but from more recent sets i dont see it. CW & GG were much more powerful imo, ASM mebbe not but that set was focused on lower power characters not worldbeaters.

You want a powerfule set? FI, the only thing keeping that set from being absolutely insane is the lack of range. But look at figs like Tanarus, Spider-man, Tyr to name a few. Spidey has flurry+charge, tyr has EW+charge, tanarus has P/PB followed by PW and shape change his whole dial. The common Iron Fist is one of the best tie up pieces we've seen in ever. Kuurth completely gets around high def #s, CR, shape change and super senses just by picking up a guy and running him thru a few walls. And for power pieces i dont think you are gonna see much tougher than that Thor and Odin, really all the LEs are worth their weight in gold.

We are not far from attack values of 15 to 20, defense values 20 to 30, and damage values 8 to 12. Plus rolling 4 d6 instead of 2. Lol! Yes I am going a bit over board but compare the stats from the first 5 sets to the present day ones and I'm not too far off in my statement. Lol!

WXM feels like a "standard" 10AV/17DV/3Dg set. As opposed to Hot, Superman, and GG, which felt more like a 11AV/18DV/4Dg set. I say "feels like" because I'm not going to break out the units section and a calculator to crunch the numbers.

Well. You're crazy. Compare them to recent stuff. And I think something like this:


gg203 V Namor
Team: X-Men
Range: 0
Points: 100
Keywords: Atlantis, Dark X-Men, Defenders, Illuminati, Ruler, X-Men

8 11 17 4

8 10 17 3

8 9 16 3

7 9 17 2

7 10 16 2

6 9 16 2

6 8 15 2

KO KO KO KO

KO KO KO KO

KO KO KO KO

KO KO KO KO

KO KO KO KO

(Special) Prince of Atlantis: Namor can use the Swim ability. When Namor occupies water terrain, modify his speed and defense value by +1.

(Attack) Drag to the Depths: When Namor occupies water terrain, if he hits a character that can't use the Swim ability with an attack, after actions resolve give that character an action token and place them in any square adjacent to Namor.

Doesn't compare too well to this:
wxm002 R Colossus
Team: X-Men
Range: 0
Points: 100
Keywords: Acolytes, Armor, Defenders, Excalibur, X-Men

8 10 17 4

8 10 17 3

8 9 17 3

7 10 17 3

7 9 17 3

7 10 16 3

6 9 16 2

KO KO KO KO

KO KO KO KO

KO KO KO KO

KO KO KO KO

KO KO KO KO

And for ranged fliers, this:


gg015 R Nova Corps Centurion
Team: No Affiliation
Range: 6
Points: 100
Keywords: Nova Corps, Police

11 10 17 3

10 9 17 3

10 10 16 3

9 9 16 3

9 9 16 3

9 9 15 2

9 8 15 2

KO KO KO KO

KO KO KO KO

KO KO KO KO

KO KO KO KO

KO KO KO KO

(Special) Share Through the Worldmind: Friendly characters with the Nova Corps keyword can use Ranged Combat Expert, but using it modifies their damage value only by +1. Give an adjacent friendly character with the Nova Corps keyword a power action and modifiy this character's damage value by +1 this turn.

(Damage) Help the Recruits: Nova Corps Centurion can carry a single-base character with the Nova Corps keyword regardless of its combat symbols.

Doesn't hold a candle to this:
wxm209 V Jean Grey
Team: X-Men
Range: 8
Points: 100
Keywords: X-Factor, X-Men

9 11 17 3

8 10 16 2

7 10 16 2

7 9 15 3

6 9 15 2

6 8 15 2

KO KO KO KO

KO KO KO KO

KO KO KO KO

KO KO KO KO

KO KO KO KO

KO KO KO KO

(Speed) Team Transport: Jean Grey can use Running Shot. When she does, her speed value is not decreased by the Carry ability, and she may carry up to 3 characters if they share a keyword with her.


Just comparing 100 pointers.