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Too Long; Don't Read. AKA Comprehensive discussion of Resources and Mind Control
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Assign - Infinity Gauntlet is assigned to a character when you reveal your force and only that character can use its effects. When assigned character is KO'd, opponent scores the Infinity Gauntlet.
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Assign - Utility Belt is assigned to a character when you build your force and only that character can use its effects. When the assigned character is KO'd, opponent scores the Utility Belt.
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Using Effects - All Costumes and Items grant the character powers and abilities that can be used as directed by their Resource Cards. Once a Utility Belt Item has been used, it is removed from the Utility Belt.
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THE PENGUIN ALWAYS TAKES HIS CUT: The Penguin is a resource assigned to your force and is not placed on the map. Once, at the beginning of your turn, you may choose a friendly character. That character can use the power indicated on the dial's current click and modifies its combat values as per the current click. At the end of your turn, if the chosen character was given a non-free action this turn, roll a d6 and compare:
1 = Remove The Penguin from the game and heal the chosen character 1 click.
2-5 = Turn the Penguin's dial to the right once. If The Penguin is KO'd it is removed from the game.
6 = Turn The Penguin to any click on the resource dial.
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The Book of the Skull is assigned to all characters on your force.
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Equipping a Character - At the beginning of each of your turns, you may remove a Hammer from The Book of the Skull and place it in the square of a friendly character that is at least 5 squares from any starting area. Also, once per turn you may give a character a power action and remove a Hammer from The Book of the Skull and place it in a friendly character's square that is at least 5 squares from any starting area. Whenever a Hammer is placed in a character's square, that character may immediately use Quake as a free action. If the friendly character is given a power action to place that Hammer on its character card this turn, the roll automatically succeeds and the Hammer is considered to be "equipped" to that character and that character can use its abilities as listed on the Hammer's card. Unless specified otherwise, a character may only be equipped with one Hammer. If the friendly character does not place the relic on its card this turn, then for the remainder of the game, it is a relic as described on its card.
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Empowered by the Serpent - At the beginning of each of your turns you may choose one friendly character equipped with a Hammer. Until your next turn, that character has its combat values modified and it can use the powers as listed in The Book of the Skull's dial window. The modifiers and powers available to the character depend on the number of Hammers that were attached to The Book of the Skull at the start of the game:
1-2 Hammers Characters can use slot #1
3-4 Hammers Characters can use slots #1-2
5-6 Hammers Characters can use slots #1-3
7-8 Hammers Characters can use all slots
When a combat symbol appears in Slot #1, the chosen character modifies that combat value by +1. When a bonus (e.g., +1) appears in Slot #1, the chosen character modifies all of their combat values by the indicated amount. The other slots show a power that the chosen character can use.
Turning the Dial - When an opposing character takes damage from a friendly character equipped with a Hammer, roll a d6 and turn the Book of the Skull dial that many times to the right. If the opposing character was KO'd by that damage, turn the Book of the Skull dial 3 additional clicks. When the dial is clicked past its red line, click it one more time.
After 3 Hammers have been equipped to friendly characters, friendly characters may be given a power action to exchange one equipped Hammer with the equipped Hammer of another friendly character. After 4 Hammers have been equipped to different friendly characters, friendly characters may be equipped with up to 2 Hammers each. After 7 Hammers have been equipped to friendly characters, friendly characters equipped with Hammers can use the Power Cosmic team ability.
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Assign - The Power Plant is assigned to all characters on your force.
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Drain a Ring's Power - Give a friendly character a free action and remove any one ring from the Power Plant. If you do, that character can either use Outwit or modify all of its combat values by +1, but only for this turn.
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A character that is successfully hit bytargeted with Mind Control cannot use any game elements assigned to it during force construction during until the Mind Control action resolves.
"Use" does not have a particular Heroclix meaning, so I am assuming we should go with the dictionary to see what the scope of it is.
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take, hold, or deploy (something) as a means of accomplishing a purpose or achieving a result; employ.
-From Google search of Use Definition
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RESOURCES ... A resource included in your force can’t be used by an opposing player, even if an assigned character becomes friendly to an opponent’s force during the game.
I apologize for all the text above, but it is rather necessary for the discussion.
For the sake of keeping things on track, I am going to ask that people who are responding to a particular part of my question mention what they are responding to, and in what capacity (such as it being a general principle that always applies, or a unique case because of the particular resource).
I will start by posing various scenarios, and then opine with how I think they should they work according to the wordings above and why. Most of them will have been taken from games I have played where both me and my opponent (they were not in a tournament setting) ultimately couldn't figure out how it was 'supposed' to work (because we have no idea what the designers intended).
We narrowed each case down to a handful of ways they might work, but couldn't discern which of them was correct.
For the sake of making this both enjoyable to read, and straightforward, I will be writing all of these in the form of a 'dialogue' between a questioner and answerer. The questioner will have a 'name' consisting of the initials of the resource (IG=infinit gauntlet, UB= Utility belt, P=penguin, BotS=Book of the Skull, PP= Power plant), the letter Q, or A (depending on if it is the questioner or answerer), and then a number (which tells us which set of related questions it is a part of. When a question truly "changes" in topic/scope I will increase the number accordingly). I will be writing all of the "answer" portions based on my current understanding of the interaction. Please tell me where I am going wrong in how this works, and what the answerer SHOULD be responding with.
GAUNTLET INTERACTIONS
IGQ1: I MC an a figure with the infinity gauntlet. What can I use?
IGA1: Whew, a relatively easy one. The assign ability specifically seems to dictate that all effects from the gauntlet are 'used' (which implies that none of its effects simply 'apply' or work via some verb that gets around the PG's MC clause), and thus the "cannot use it" clause from the PG comes into effect. Everything the gauntlet gives is null while MCed.
I really don't see how this could work any other way, but it does cause a weird question to come up. Namely "What happens if the IG bearer had outwitted something via the gauntlet? (it was the selected power from apotheosis approaching for instance). I simply have no idea what the answer to this question is.
UTILITY BELT
UBQ1: I MC a character with the Utility belt. What can I use?
UBA1: See IGA1 above, everything is covered under "use" of the belt's effects.
UBQ2: But the "game elements" (belt items, and costume) on it were NOT assigned to thee character at the beginning of the game! So MC doesn't apply to these right?
UBA2: While that is somewhat the case, those items don't actually DO anything on their own in this manner. In order to actually have an effect they require going through the utility belt's Using Effects clause first. Since all effects of the utility belt are "use" of the utility belt, and granting you powers of the attached items is an effect, it is prohibited by Mind Control.
Note: The same "what happens to the Outwit/Perplex/Take away TAs" from BEFORE the MC still applies, since those should 'turn off' during the MC.
PENGUIN
PQ1: I MC a character with Penguin, what can I use?
PA1:... Actually, it isn't that simple. Is the penguin part of your (the force using MC) force, or the force of the character being MCed?
PQ1: Its on the force of a player who is NOT using MC!
PA1: In that case the MCer cannot use anything having to do with the penguin. This is because the penguin no longer has jurisdiction over the figure because he only applies to someone else's force. This has nothing to do with the PG entry on mind control.
PQ1: What if it is on the force of the player using MC?
PA1: Then it applies no matter what. In most cases this is irrelevant since that figure was not chosen to use the penguin's abilities at the beginning of the turn. But in the rare instance where he WAS chosen, all of the penguin's bonuses would still apply. This is because the Penguin was never assigned to the Character being mind controlled, and thus evades the "Assigned to it" condition addressed in the PG.
Yet again we might run into the problem of "what happens if you MC a character who had used Outwit before being MCed. Strangely I think the answer to this one is a definite "The outwit goes away, period.", rather than the "I am not sure" of the IG and UB. The reason for this is that while MCed the character cannot "use" his power from the belt/gauntlet, he still never had it countered, and never really 'lost' it. Whereas with the penguin it is much more of a case of losing the power and then gaining it back later, which has always just ended it entirely.
It very well could be the case that this is also how it works with the UB and IG, but I feel there is a better case to be made that the intent with those two resources was not to allow the opponent to turn off the outwit by simply MCing the character, and that once the MC ends the countered power will still be countered.
Book of the Skull
BotSQ1: I Mind Control a character who has the BotS on him, what happens?
BotSA1: ... Ugh... Well... First things first, are YOU the one with the book or is it someone else whose character you are MCing?
BotsQ1: It's my book!
BotSA1: Ok. You won't get to be empowering that character since you are in the middle of a Mind Control, which also means you can't use the book dial since only the empowered character can use that. Any hammers he already has equipped are still equipped, and he can use the benefits of those hammers because they weren't assigned to him during force construction. Since the book doesn't explicitly state that all of its 'effects' are also 'using' the book (see IG/UB assign wording for the difference), anything passive will also be allowed, if the MCed character is equipped with a hammer, him dealing damage/KOing an opposing character will turn the book. Because the book is assigned to each friendly character, this means that you can have opposing figures become assigned for the duration they are friendly.
BotSQ1: What if it isn't my book?
BotSA1: In that case you still get to use the hammer if he has one, but since the character won't be Friendly to the force with the book on it, it won't trigger the spin.
BotSQ1: What if we BOTH have a book?
BotSA1: Same thing, except that if he is equipped he WILL trigger the book he is currently friendly to
BotSQ2: If we both have a book, do the books look at the TOTAL number of Friendly equipped hammers for determining trading/Power cosmic/Multiple hammers?
BotSA2: ... Ugh... Actually... Yes. If you had 0 hammers currently equipped, have a Book on your own force, and then triple mind controlled three opposing equipped characters, you could trade hammers between them as your first action under mind control (after which they would cease to be friendly, and then the total number of hammers you have equipped to friendly characters would drop to 2, thus disabling that ability), and since they are using the ability granted by a book that WASN'T assigned to them during force construction, they are not prohibited via the PG clarification of Mind control.
BotSQ3: What happens if I MC an empowered character?[indent]
BotSA3:... I hate you, and your face, and everything you do... Since the book doesn't dictate that ALL effects of the book are "use" (see UB and IG), it means we need to rely on the normal english meaning of the word. The normal meaning of "use would NOT include passive things that just sort of HAPPEN to the character. This means that the MCed empowered character would still be the chosen character who is empowered, but he would no longer get any bonuses from that resource, because the rules say so. Also, despite you having a book that character was not the character chosen to receive its benefits. Unlike 'equipped' which a character would retain, there is no 'empowered' status to check for the purposes of your book, and he would not receive any powerups from yours. Since he is still the chosen character, he will regain any empowered bonuses when he returns to his original force.
If somehow you managed to MC your OWN empowered character, they would still receive any passive bonuses to stats, but would not be able to use any of the powers/abilities the book might grant them.
BotSQ4: Can a MCed character Call down a book as a power action?
BotSQ4: That depends, if the character was originally opposing, it would not have been assigned the book during force construction, and thus would get to use it even while MCed. If they were friendly during force construction then they would not for the same reason.
BotSQ5: Can an MCed character pick up and equip a book while MCed?
BotSA5: Yes. Period. The power action to pick up a relic is not something granted by the book, but rather the rules, and so the "can't use it" clause of MC couldn't possibly apply. Additionally, since not all effects of the book are considered use you would even get to auto-succeed if the character picks up the hammer, and it would still be considered equipped, because neither of these is "use" of the resource, but rather simply effects that "apply" because of it.
POWER PLANT
PPQ1: I Mind Control a character with the power plant, what can I use?
PPA1: That depends, is it the MCer's power plant, or someone else's?
PPQ1: The MCer's!
PPA1: The power plant will now be assigned to that character because he is friendly to the same force. If that character was not originally friendly to it then he can also drain a ring as his one action, because he gets around that pesky "assigned during force construction" clause in the PG.
Regardless of original Frienditude, the MCed character can still use whataever rings he has picked up since the start of the game, because they weren't assigned during force construction. Additionally any modifiers from draining a ring earlier in the turn still apply because like the BotS and unlike the IG/UB the Power plant doesn't specify that EVERY effect from it is also "use" of it, and so passive things like the stat modifier from draining will still apply.
A character originally friendly will not be able to drain a ring while MCed, however, because this would be "use" and it was assigned during force construction. Any outwit already gained and used from the powerplant would presumably still be in effect, and would not end, since he never actually LOST it, he would still have it.
PPQ2: What happens if I MC an opposing team base?
PPA2: The team base is NOT assigned the resource when it becomes friendly, but can still use the drain-a-ring ability because the PowerPlant doesn't restrict its use to assigned characters.
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I am not entirely sure that all of the 'answers' here are perfectly correct. Please tell me where the poor sclub answering these questions is wrong, and the rationale as to why. If an answer is correct, but the rationale is wrong, please correct that too (know WHY the answer is correct is more important than it's being correct in my view).
I highly recommend just sticking to one question/answer at a time, because after taking... 43 minutes to write it, I am sure that TL;DR is about to ensue.
If there are any other MC-Resource questions I missed, that aren't covered as a subset of the above, please post and let me know, I will be happy to edit this to include it.
You don't seem to have this from page 21 of the rulebook in there:
RESOURCES
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A resource included in your force can’t be used by an opposing player, even if an assigned character becomes friendly to an opponent’s force during the game.
I didn't read everything, but I didn't see it in the quoted rules.
How does it affect things?
At the very least it totally removes the need to consider situations in which the resource was part of the other force. You can't use it.
You would probably be able to use your own resources that are usable by just plain old friendly characters, as long as there are no other requirements for the use.
Relics put into play through a resource are probably usable during mind control, even if the resource was opposing.
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Also, characters can use things passively in HeroClix.
Re BotSQ3: The character wouldn't get the buff to stats that are being granted by the opponent's book.
I forgot about that rule, will be added, BotS3 will be adjusted to reflect it. Fortunately, the instances where you have 'passive' things applying from another player's resource are basically non-existent anyway outside of the book (since all other instances are prohibited for one reason or another).
Though it does present an interesting situation where both players have a book, your opponent empowers a guy, and then you MC the empowered guy. There is nothing that would indicate that he ceases to be 'empowered' but he doesn't get any benefit from the opponent's book.
But since YOU have a book that cares about things being empowered, I think it would allow them to use YOUR book while MCed. Since that character didn't have it assigned in force construction it would even be able to use all bonuses from it for its one action as well, powers/abilities/plusses/whatever.
--- OP edited to reflect your statement, moompix, let me know if the new wording for bots3 is accurate.
BotSQ3: What happens if I MC an empowered character?[indent]
BotSA3:... I hate you, and your face, and everything you do... Since the book doesn't dictate that ALL effects of the book are "use" (see UB and IG), it means we need to rely on the normal english meaning of the word. The normal meaning of "use would NOT include passive things that just sort of HAPPEN to the character. This means that the MCed empowered character would still be empowered, though he would no longer get any bonuses from that resource, because the rules say so. If you yourself also have a book, then he would still be empowered, and be allowed to use any empowered benefits from your book, because that resource was not assigned to him during force construction.
Quote : Originally Posted by firlz
Though it does present an interesting situation where both players have a book, your opponent empowers a guy, and then you MC the empowered guy. There is nothing that would indicate that he ceases to be 'empowered' but he doesn't get any benefit from the opponent's book.
But since YOU have a book that cares about things being empowered, I think it would allow them to use YOUR book while MCed. Since that character didn't have it assigned in force construction it would even be able to use all bonuses from it for its one action as well, powers/abilities/plusses/whatever.
I am fairly certain the bolded portion is incorrect. Being Empowered by the Serpent is not a state like being "equipped". It is a game effect that grants the character combat modifiers and the use of powers based on a choice at the start of the turn. If you did not choose the MC'd character with your book at the start of the turn (not possible outside of long term MC), your book will not provide benefits to that character, regardless if your opponent choose that character with his book.