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Quote : Originally Posted by Steal a Dead Man's Armor
When a character with a different name, the Armor or Robot keyword, and 150 points or less would be KO'd, you may roll a d6. On a result of 5-6, return that character to the map in Sasha Hammer's square, on a click number that's the same number of clicks from its starting line as her click number. That character is now a friendly character and Sasha Hammer is KO'd.
Nobody ever answered the question in the preview so I thought I'd ask. How does that figure swap trait ("Steal a Dead Man's Armor") work with KO points? If she replaces another figure (let's assume 150 points), I'm assuming your opponent gets those points, but what about when "what was Sasha" is KOd? Would that be another 150 points or her original 90 points?
-Heroclix is not a game of logic, it's a game of strategy .... after all, when's the last time that you saw a giant (using a stealth ability) that was hiding behind a swingset... and nobody could SEE him????
Both the "chosen" character and Sasha are KO'd and points would be scored for each.
In your scenario you would score 150 points for the KO'd character and your opponent would score 90 points for Sasha. If the "new Sasha" is KO'd, then your opponent would score an additional 150 points.
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Okay, thanks. I figured the replacement figure would be the points the opponent gets... but you're saying the opponent would also get the 90 points for Sasha? So if Sasha and Detroit Steel (150 points) were on the map, DS is dealt his KO blow, Sasha rolls a 6 for her trait (giving her DS's "body"), and the opponent KOs the replacement DS, the opponent would get 390 (90 for Sasha and 150 points for each of the 2 DSs)?
It makes sense as it says Sasha is KOd, but if she hasn't done anything in the game, it makes it kind of pointless (and even detrimental) to even have her on your team. Well, I suppose it can give you a potential boost of 60 points worth more than the team you field, but it also gives your opponent a huge potential for more points.
-Heroclix is not a game of logic, it's a game of strategy .... after all, when's the last time that you saw a giant (using a stealth ability) that was hiding behind a swingset... and nobody could SEE him????
Ooh, followup question... would anything assigned to the previous figure (feats, resources, relics, ATAs, etc) follow them when Sasha "steals" it? And would the opponent get double points for those as well?
And is it Sasha that's making the roll so it can be PC'd?
-Heroclix is not a game of logic, it's a game of strategy .... after all, when's the last time that you saw a giant (using a stealth ability) that was hiding behind a swingset... and nobody could SEE him????
Okay, thanks. I figured the replacement figure would be the points the opponent gets... but you're saying the opponent would also get the 90 points for Sasha? So if Sasha and Detroit Steel (150 points) were on the map, DS is dealt his KO blow, Sasha rolls a 6 for her trait (giving her DS's "body"), and the opponent KOs the replacement DS, the opponent would get 390 (90 for Sasha and 150 points for each of the 2 DSs)?
It makes sense as it says Sasha is KOd, but if she hasn't done anything in the game, it makes it kind of pointless (and even detrimental) to even have her on your team. Well, I suppose it can give you a potential boost of 60 points worth more than the team you field, but it also gives your opponent a huge potential for more points.
It's your classic "risk vs. reward" scenario.
Quote : Originally Posted by burleigh2
Ooh, followup question... would anything assigned to the previous figure (feats, resources, relics, ATAs, etc) follow them when Sasha "steals" it? And would the opponent get double points for those as well?
The character was KO'd, and removed from the game and all "attached" bonuses would be scored per their rules. If Sasha Hammer's Trait is successful, then you just return the character to the map without any of its "bonuses".
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The character was KO'd, and removed from the game and all "attached" bonuses would be scored per their rules. If Sasha Hammer's Trait is successful, then you just return the character to the map without any of its "bonuses".
It's a "would be KO'd" though so they aren't actually ko'd right?
It's a "would be KO'd" though so they aren't actually ko'd right?
The deputies have already discussed this and we are waiting for a final say, but we agreed that the "return that character to the map" line is a pretty good indicator that the character is KO'd.
Unless we get something back telling us otherwise, the ruling is that the character is KO'd.
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The deputies have already discussed this and we are waiting for a final say, but we agreed that the "return that character to the map" line is a pretty good indicator that the character is KO'd.
Unless we get something back telling us otherwise, the ruling is that the character is KO'd.
cool - final question then:
if she is caught in the pulsewave that kills another character with the keywords she wants, can her trait still activate?
I know it's been ruled in the past that nothing - even pulsewave - can interfere with how a character is ko'ed (Mr. Immortal for example), but I imagine this is different since it is coming from someone else's trait.
if she is caught in the pulsewave that kills another character with the keywords she wants, can her trait still activate?
I know it's been ruled in the past that nothing - even pulsewave - can interfere with how a character is ko'ed (Mr. Immortal for example), but I imagine this is different since it is coming from someone else's trait.
No, her trait will not activate as it will be ignored. You are thinking about this line in the Player's Guide:
Game effects which alter the way a figure is KO‘d or otherwise defeated can‘t be ignored.
This only applies to characters like Obnoxio, Shazam!/Black Adam, etc. who are KO'd by some other mean than reaching KO-clicks. Sasha is still KO'd when she reaches her KO clicks, so the line does not apply to her.
The deputies have already discussed this and we are waiting for a final say, but we agreed that the "return that character to the map" line is a pretty good indicator that the character is KO'd.
Unless we get something back telling us otherwise, the ruling is that the character is KO'd.
That's exactly what I was going to say, too... the "would be KO'd" is a pre-KO, but "return this character to the map" implies they were removed. I'd love to find out the answer as it could turn this figure from a borderline complete waste of a figure to a contender... all depending on luck of the dice roll and who is on the map to "replace."
So if GD comes back and says the figure is not KOd, would that mean you could use their "extras" that are on them or am I just being overly hopeful?
Thanks for the followup!
-Heroclix is not a game of logic, it's a game of strategy .... after all, when's the last time that you saw a giant (using a stealth ability) that was hiding behind a swingset... and nobody could SEE him????
No, her trait will not activate as it will be ignored. You are thinking about this line in the Player's Guide:
Game effects which alter the way a figure is KO‘d or otherwise defeated can‘t be ignored.
This only applies to characters like Obnoxio, Shazam!/Black Adam, etc. who are KO'd by some other mean than reaching KO-clicks. Sasha is still KO'd when she reaches her KO clicks, so the line does not apply to her.
Are you sure? I don't think Sasha's trait would count as a game effect used by that character, it would be used by Sasha, who is outside of the pulse wave range. Like perplex. I would assume it would be legal for Sasha to bring that character back.
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if she is caught in the pulsewave that kills another character with the keywords she wants, can her trait still activate?
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I think the answer is yes. Because if she and the robot she wants to comender are both caught by the same pulse wave, they each take 1 click, the robot is ko'ed, and then when actions resolve, Sasha can try to hijack the pritier robot.
Are you sure? I don't think Sasha's trait would count as a game effect used by that character, it would be used by Sasha, who is outside of the pulse wave range. Like perplex. I would assume it would be legal for Sasha to bring that character back.
The question was what would happen if Sasha and the KO'd character were both hit by Pulse Wave. If Sasha is not hit by PW, then her trait is not ignored.
Quote : Originally Posted by mandark
I think the answer is yes. Because if she and the robot she wants to comender are both caught by the same pulse wave, they each take 1 click, the robot is ko'ed, and then when actions resolve, Sasha can try to hijack the pritier robot.
Sasha's trait doesn't activate after actions resolve. It activates when the character is KO'd. This happens during the action, so her trait will be ignored and can't activate.
I have another question about this same trait. Why does it have such strange wording?
Quote
When a character with a different name, the Armor or Robot keyword, and 150 points or less would be KO'd, you may roll a d6. On a result of 5-6, return that character to the map in Sasha Hammer's square, on a click number that's the same number of clicks from its starting line as her click number. That character is now a friendly character and Sasha Hammer is KO'd.
It's the underlined wording above; I want to make sure I'm doing the right thing when I read it out strictly as written. Example:
Detroit Steel is about to be KOed and Sasha Hammer is on click 3.
Sasha's player rolls for her trait when Detroit Steel is dealt enough damage for a KO.
The result is a 6, so the trait activates.
Therefore, Detroit Steel is returned to the map on a click number that is 3 clicks away from its starting line.
So starting from Detroit Steel's starting line, I click the dial 3 times.
Now Detroit Steel is placed on the map and Sasha is KOed.
Detroit Steel is on click number 4 - because 4 is 3 clicks away from click #1.
The other way that could be argued is for Detroit Steel to be placed on the map on click 3. But if that is what is intended by the game designers, then wouldn't that underlined part of the trait say "on a click number that's the same number of clicks from its starting line as Sasha is." ?
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