Now if he uses outwit and a friendly character uses running shot and comes within 3 squares. Does he lose outwit and the power he countered comes back or does he keep it until my next turn?

WILL: LOST LANTERN: Graf Toren can use Willpower. When no friendly character is within 3 squares except those with the Lost Lanterns keyword, Graf Toren can use Outwit until your next turn.

Once the condition is initially met you won't lose the power moving other friendly characters within 3 squares. The power will stay countered.

Thanks, I wasn't sure

Not that I doubt you but would you happen to have a ruling for this?

I only ask because of this thread with ruling;

http://www.hcrealms.com/forum/showth...+Luthor+outwit

I have to echo jt... I don't see anything to back that answer up. Once a friendly enters the 3 square area, the condition is no longer met and the effect would stop. Just like how a figure using carry can carry unless they lose it, if the carrier entered an area where they lost carry, the friendly would drop at that moment, they couldn't keep carrying just because they were using it first.

Not the same thing as Raizo Kodo, but similar I think.

TACTICAL CONCENTRATION: If Raizo Kodo is not adjacent to an opposing character, he can use Outwit until your next turn.

He can use outwit then become adjacent to a character. However he can not become adjacent to a character then use outwit.

With the Will Lost lantern, I think it just checks to ensure there are no friendly characters within 3 squares for you to use your outwit.

Pfligman is correct.

This has been ruled on many times with powers that use similar wording.

Really where? I have provided a link to a ruling would you be so kind as to do the same as asked, please?




But as stated by the ruling authority in the link I provided, once you can no longer use outwit, it's effects dissolve just like if you got knocked off of that click.

Huh... it's been long enough that I had forgotten about that conversation with Raizo.
So yes, after looking up previous threads about this (a couple of which I had been involved in, which is the more embarrassing part), it does seem that he can. The power specifically says that when the friendlies are not within 3, he can USE OW... it doesn't say that the OW ends when they enter that range. In other words, he can't activate OW when a friendly is too close, but it sticks even after they are close because he's already used it.
Had to look closely at the wording on that one.


If you'd like a link, there was a thread at http://www.hcrealms.com/forum/showpo...85&postcount=4
It didn't have an orange chiming in, but at the time, it was the general understanding that they would chime in to stop an argument or correct a statement if no accurate statement was listed. This thread had a consensus that this is the right answer and there are several other threads that agree.

If it helps, this is a different situation because of a couple key words. Specifically, Lex's power doesn't stop because they "can't use it" but because of the TA's wording, "When two friendly characters that can use the Superman Enemy team ability are adjacent to each other..." Only when they are adjacent can they activate it, but because they are no longer adjacent, they can't use it as the power doesn't specify that they can. In general, when a power says it has ongoing effects (like this power and Raizo's, which say "until your next turn"), it will continue to work when the minimum conditions are no longer met... if this didn't say "until your next turn," it would stop as soon as the friendly entered the range (which is what tripped me up at first)... or if the power is OW'd (in which case, he can't use OW as he doesn't have the power to start with so the OW's effect goes away, too). Does that help?

I don't know they sound really similar, but it does say this ability.

The difference in the ruling you quoted is that the friendly figures have outwit through the team ability. When Luthor moves away characters that get the team ability from him lose it and lose the outwit with it.

True, but there are a couple of things that negate the SE TA when they leave adjacency (bolded below):
They have some of the same words, but those caveats are what stop the OW when they are no longer adjacent. It's not much of a difference, but it's enough to cause the issue.