Liao didn't even win one game out of 18 today at a venue. It wasn't even fun. Didn't wizkids realize that SS already won vc 2. Naturally Liao will have to stay close to its deployment zone to maintain some kind of offensive edge and this gives SS VC 3 as well.

No fun at all.

I don't want to hear all the 'well, its a challenge but...'

400 against 300.

The battle is already finished before it starts.

What an entry you have given House Liao into the Mechwarrior universe wizkids. Nothing but craptacular odds and nothing remotely close to even. way to go! You guys rock!

Let me guess, next month it will be 300 points of infantry(liao) against 400 points of anything(x faction).

I had wanted to play swordsworn because I like them more ( no offense) but someone needed to switch sides and I hadn't made an army yet, so I switched and won 2 out of 3 and got 1st place.

Good job on the win man.

Truth is though that sonicyouth was right. They've had several campaigns already where they have done some cheesy #### to Liao.

How about the Liao vs. Republic where Liao was only allowed to use Infantry (with an increased difficulty to capture) and there was no restriction on the Republic using anti-personnel and all of their units had increased defence(?).

The Swordsworn vs. Liao is cheesy because the SS player knows that the Liao player is starting behind (by 100pts!). In that situation, you can sit back and let your opponent come after you. It also allows the SS player to play some serious ####. How about Derrick Hasbani teamed up with artillery or even some of their Balacs? And this is only if you play Faction pure!

Truth is when Liao is allowed to play in a strait out fight against many of the other Factions, they either win or it tends to be really close (although SC can hand them their @$$ but they can do that to a lot of Factions).

To be honest, I played SS, and won.
All SS players happened to win all 3 vc's as well. So I had to base an unsalvaged towed artillery in 2 games and rack up 10-12 points a turn for vc3.

It was truly a day of pogwarrior. Every SS player had 2-3 towed AA's(despite the -2 to attack,the drift is small and IT helps),multiple SS Balacs, and hordes of infantry awaiting Liao's advance. I played at a venue I don't play at normally and it was sad to see nothing but older players schooling the younger ones with all VTOL/artillery. And the kids didn't know better.Noone took the Jack army seriously at first, then I mentioned to someone I was 'sonicyouth' on realms and everyone started to get real competitive for the SS side. You could cut the tension with a butter knife. Everyone wanted the SS Warhammer so bad, I hadn't seen this much of a desire to win since the FFE marquee.

I played One Eyed Jack,DF Trike x5, BR peasant x5, and SS fenrir=399.

I tried and tried to come up with a good Liao army in Playtest but it just never worked.

The army I used worked perfectly though. The trikes would inflitrate to neutralize a threat or 2 and start picking up VC 3. This would kind of alter the focus of the battle so I could advance Jack and use the negative modifiers to my advantage.I made sure when moving Jack that if my opponent did get in to range,the negative modifiers for them would apply as well. This let me advance in all 3 games beyond the plateau line if I had to. Jack only has a 9 attack after the modifiers and I could still target up to 4 units. The peasants were there to prevent a charge. Charging has no negative attack modifiers cause it wasn't a ranged or close combat attack so I had to be sure. Fortunately, the smell of cheddar and swiss ran rampant throughout the venue and I only faced 1 mech (Liao Targe) out of 3 games.

Dirtmongrel, I'd like to know what you played for Liao. what you played against and the skill of the people you played. just curious.

Lets face it, House Davion will always crush the Cappellan scum. With that said, yeah, this scenerio is seriously slanted.

I don't know about this being a broken campaign. I think it as giving the Liao player a handicap.

I play Liao and won all my battles. My force was:

Liao - Targe
Merc - Sniper Artillery
Liao - Zahn Heavy Transport
Liao - Salamander Battle Armor
Liao - Fa Shih Battle Armor

My last battle was against:

SSw - Atlas
HL - DI Towed Field Artillery x2
filler infantry

And I was able to slap him around with only a little trouble.

In fact of the top three players at my venue 2 were Laio players, I was one of them. All three of us were undefeated for the day. The SSw player won the prize because he had the most VC's. And this was the most annoying thing about the scenario, that it was so hard for the Liao player to get VC 3.

pxhudson

At my venue there were 2 Liao players and 3 SS players. Normally I would have played Liao for the challenge, but I wanted Romain very badly so... It just seemed wrong to not fight for a neat SS piece without an SS pure army. The other two SS players lost every single piece every single game. I didn't lose a round at all, but all the matches I played in were very close and all ran the clock out. I faced faced 4 artillery pieces each round and no VTOLs while fielding Rusty Cooper, a Sniper, and a DI Towed AA myself and a Sprint. I also played an explodamech in the form of Jaqueline Tadaka and did very well with her. Every game that I won was by less than 100 points or close to it. I played some of the hardest battles of my life and, honestly, without that 100 point difference the scenario would have been so unbalanced that it would not have been funny.

I posted on this scenario here and in WK forums but I don't think anybody was listening. It was obviously "broken" when it was posted weeks ago. Anyone who knows the rules would see that SS doesn't have to assault the ridge.

It was a very bad start for the first battle with uneven start forces.

More over, it shows the talent level (or lack thereof) of the folks working on MWDA at WK. The recent events had been some of WK's best stuff. The battles were well thought out. November's campaigns look like someone jotted down some stuff on a napkin over lunch.

They should have given the Cappellan scum at least 100 VC2 to start the game.

i personally thought the scenario was junk. It was over before it began. Maybe, if all SS units got the decrease to stats anywhere on the board AND Liao units didn't get the decrease to stats anywhere, then maybe it would be fair.
The scenario (i imagine) was designed to have the SS players attacking a fortified Liao plateau. What ended up happening is that the Liao players had to go down the plateau, because the SS player started out with VC2 in the pocket! Not a good scenario at all.

Here's what my army was ( as far as I can remeber):
LI di towed aa arty
SH di towed field arty
RotS di towed field arty
SS balac vtol
Merc balac vtol
SW recovery vehicle
SW clan ba
SW fenrir ba x2
SW cavalier ba x2

I played cheese because I said to my friend who always plays cheese "if you don't use a mech, I'm not gonna use a mech" and then he didn't use one, so I put in the sh arty and the merc balac. I played my friend first, who had accidently used 500 points instead of 400, so that ended up being a win even though I lost(but I didn't do bad, considering) next game I was against someone with way more experience than me. I've been playing for about 2 or 3 months, I'm pretty sure he used to play cbt. But I just blasted his 1 arty and when his mech approached I salavged it with balacs and the RotS arty. Third game I lost (stupid vc3!) but I'm proud to say I did capture his SS locust very quickly (though it wasn't very hard.)

Where I played there were only three people including myself. I played Liau because I knew than nobody else would. The other two were SSw. I used Catalina Trujillo, MERC Kanazuchi, MERC Raiden, and a MERC Shock Trooper. My first opponent dah twin SW Padillas and schooled me with those. He also had Arnis Drummond, which charged me after the artillery barrage. That game was over in a little over a half hour with everything of mine destroyed. My second battle was fun because my opponent didn't have artillery. He used Floyd Glass, Alec Denner, Gregory Lee and 4 infantry. Catalina stomped both vehicles and floyd kept missing his attacks because of the modifiers. It came down to Catalina against 3 infantry, a salvaged Gregory, and a salvaged Floyd. Everything but Floyd died. We only played 2 games because it was obvious that the first SSw player was the winner.
This scenario was stacked against the Liau side but hey, when you're in it for the fun does that really matter?

I didn't play this one (i dont ever played competivtly) but just reading it I thought "Ok, I take it Wizkids got in a new shipment of drugs from Columbia." It was so obviously broken.

At my venue the players were obviously upset at how unbalanced the scenario was. I had a poor kid who was his first time playing a real game of MWDA. I basically let him barrow 300 points of figures (he played Ssw) so he would have a decent chance of doing SOMETHING instead of being stomped.

I honestly think the people who design these scenarios are only owrking on storyline concepts and not caring about gameplay or balance

If the SS player didn't have the 100 point VC2 advantage, the scenario would have been "broken" in favor of the Liao player. Quite frankly, I don't understand how turning "Mile High Battle" into a siege scenario goes against the spirit of it. Any competent Swordsworn commander should know that advancing on a steep plateau under constant barrage by Liao artillery (and you know there would be lots of artillery) would practically be suicide. Instead, you sit at the bottom and bombard with (hopefully) superior artillery until the enemy either comes out from the trenches or surrenders.

It makes perfect sense, even from a fluff perspective, for the SS player to be able to sit at the bottom of the plateau and lay siege to the Liao forces.

There have been unbalanced scenarios before. Fortunately they're restricted to storyline events instead of ranked games.

wizkids wanted liao to loose in the first place. i mean in the fluff for "mines or yours" says liao looses the first battle and the SS get on the plateau.

IMO mines or yours is even more broken because its just a bare map with no modifiers. that means the SS gets a +4 to all aritllery attacks and all liao gets is 5 mines. not to mention the SS have no incentive to actually advance at least 6 inches and hit the first mine.