I have an idea I came up with when I was reading the "A discussion of AP" thread. That thread has drifted to charge and off of the AP SE. So here is what I thought of last night.
Slight tweak of the Charge.
Target gets +1 to defense.
Target take Primary -1 damage.
Charger takes 1 damage hit or miss.
Charger takes 1 heat for the run and 2 for the charge.
What do you think.

I would have to playtest, but that change seems like almost too much.

I think that maybe +1 defense and only primary damage (not primary +1) might be good, I also think the heat should just be 2 for the charge. In other words, now mechs take 1 for the run and 1 for the charge, if it was changed to 2 for the charge, that would make evade less useful for the superchargers.

Just my charge opinion, I would have to do some serious playtesting. If WK was acctually going to make a charge change, I would like to see them propose a few (3-4) different changes and ask us to playtest them like the new January effective rules. I think this would create some concentrated playtesting and good feedback.

Reu

They could still charge very well,

Primary damage -1 prevents salvaged or near salavaged Mechs from doing any damage of a charge, which was what i think the intent of the game designers was.

The rest is no change at all except a +1 defense bonus, and an extra click of heat.

my BM had a good idea... you take 2 clicks for charging and you use the stats of the new clicks (2 damage in) for damage and attack. True this would make SWs better chargers but most of them still would have trouble...

Kinnison, as far as elimanting the damage that salvaged mechs do, either using primary or primary -1 just make it a min. of 1 damage. That way salvaged mechs with no damage value still do thier 1 damage, I would even be ok with a min. of 2.

Reu

The armor, don't forget the armor plays an important role in damage delivered and sustained.

Just my two cents.

Before we start looking for a fix, you need to find out what the problem with charging is.

It is a first strike, but the pay offs for doing it are different for certain mechs. Charging benefits only the mechs with a high speed, high attack, and stable heat dial. Otherwise it is used as a desperation measure that can cause major damage disproportion to it's chance of success.

Well, since I didn't get the chance to respond to this in the AP thread, here goes.

The bonus to Defense is a possible change, but let's look at all the changes together - I can't help but feel that many suggested changes only take Arnis into account. So let's pick another 'Mech, okay? Heck, let's pick a DF 'Mech, since we're apparently the chargemonkey faction.

Miguel V. Following your proposed rules, say he charges a target close to his point cost, so let's say Katsu Moriyama:

- Miguel rolls for the Charge, rolling a 13 (which is above average and probably won't even be attempted by most players). He succeeds, since Katsu's modified Defense is 23 for the Charge.
- Miguel deals a whole 2 damage.
- Miguel takes 1 damage.
- More to the point, Miguel now takes a whopping 3 heat: he has -1 to his Secondary Damage and Speed, and has to roll to Avoid Shutdown.

Now what exactly has he accomplished with this? Nothing really. And this is just against a 'Mech of around his point cost, when Charge should really be used to whittle down a larger, better-armoured opponent. Not only that, he's potentially shut down in base with a slightly damaged opponent. Bad place to be...

I just think the solution to Charge is not to make it useless. And it would be useless to many, many 'Mechs, since Miguel actually has a fair dial compared to many others. We should try to make Charge more risky instead, so it's a bad first strike. And I know I'm repeating myself, but Charge should be more painful for the charger than it is right now.

You just don't get it. Making it more painful Does make it useless for a HUGE # of mechs.

My proposal (not that there is anything wrong with Charge)

+ 1 to defense, +1 to damage (this is balanced since DFA is +2 defense and +2 damage)

Armor works against it. (although I am not sure about that one)

I like the idea of a fixed 2 heat for a charge (3 if you push). This change would only affect some of the uber-charge mechs that have evade.
I still think Primary -1. But make it a minimum of 1 so the salvage mech still has a way to do damage.
Charge would still punch through Armor.
And I think if you are charging as a first strike option you should find yourself in a bad situation after a charge.
Overheated and in base contact with another Mech that has taken some damage but is still very able to strike back. HARD!
I think charge should be a last resort. A way to finish off a Mech or push it over into salvage. Or a last option for a salvage or nearly salvage mech.
I think these changes would accomplish this.
I would like some players to playtest this and give me you opinion.

The "punchback" option people have been floating around.

The reason this is a horrible option that I can promise you will never happen, is because it allows 2 attacks in a row vs a target by the same unit (more if you have pulse or rapid strike). This is totally against the timing of the whole game

But it's not an attack, ltrain. It's the damage you take from ramming an incredibly heavy object at high speeds. I realize this adds up to just being damage - as though an attack had in fact been made.

And I understand your point that it goes against the timing of the game. You may even be right. But I can't believe you'd think that just adding 1 Defense to the target balances anything. Charge is an overused, overpowered tactic. If it's not a problem at your venue, count yourself lucky!

The point is that any single tactic which spawns the creation of 'Mechs to cater to it is a bad design decision. 'Mechs made for ranged combat don't constitute a bad design, since long-range can take place in so many ways. Charge, however, carries a lot of flaws right now that allow certain units to be worth many times their point cost. And that IS a problem.

@ Dan43,

I see what you mean. The only problem I have with being shutdown before your opponent's turn is that it actually turns out to be harsher than taking more damage. You can't move, you're easily captured, and even damaged infantry can destroy the 'Mech.

And I really don't think reducing the damage dealt by Charge is the way to go. Too many units need the possibility of a punishing blow to punch through armour. The time we've spent (by we I mean "I and the players at my venue") playtesting the punchback rule convinced us that it balances units against each other. Arnis can't take out fatties all alone with punchback. He needs support, as well he should. Other 'Mechs are similarly balanced, and maybe even more so (very few of us use Arnis, in fact).

Make the damage a set amount.

Ram does 2...make charge do 3. Brawling Mechs 4.

Most players would not attempt a charge at full health, but when you are salvaged the charge looks mighty nice. It would make charge into a despiration attack.

If you want armor to play a role either make it reduce damage or add to the damage the charger takes. If it reduces damage there would always be 1 damage taken by reducing the damage by 2. My favorite idea would be to make armor deal more damage back to the attacker. Heavy by 1 and hardened by 2. This would make the low defence, hardened Mechs like the new Longbow and the Republic Blackhawk something you probably wouldn't want to charge. Dealing 3 and taking 3 damage wouldn't sit well with most players.

I hate to be agreeing with a JEB, but he is absolutely right. If these changes were implemented no one in there right mind would play mechs. They are way over costed without having a good special attack that no one else can do.

+1 to defense would make maxim charging risky business. Not a good idea but not a game breaker.

Armor should work against charge. This would mean a subtle shift in how charge works. It would no longer be the best attack option, period. Some mechs would be more playable. And maybe the Highlander players would stop complaining that all their SEs are useless.

Hakk

I am not saying this is the perfect solution. I just want some people to play test it before they say it does not work. Just like I plan to play test your punchback this week.
I am trying to suggest small tweaks.
A little less damage to the target. (2 or 3 less.) Primary or Primary -1 instead of +1. (To a minimum of 1.)
A little more heat. A fixed 2 for the charge instead of 1 for the run and 1 for the charge. (Only affects mechs with evade.)
A little harder to hit. (+1 to defense.)
I think these are reasonable changes that could be made with a simple FAQ entry, that would make a big difference in game play without adversley affecting game balance.
Charge would still punch through armor without reduction. (Altough personally I would like to see heavy and hardened reduce charge damage but with a minimum of 1, I do not think you will see that happen.)