This is something I have been thinking about since I found out Grinder's stats, so I will share my thoughts on this subject so everyone can enjoy my rantings.

Grinder vs Milagro - an evaluation.

One of the most common unique mechs I see used in my area is Milagro with Aiko Ryohara (Jade Falcon recruit) with Heavy Decoy Gear. Since I see some people using Grinder in the same setup I will use that pilot/gear combo to compare the two.

Milagro 176
Aiko Ryohara 27
Jade Falcon 14
Decoy Heavy Gear 38
Total: 255

Grinder 242
Aiko Ryohara 27 (no jump jets, no Jade Falcon)
Decoy Heavy Gear 38
Total: 307

Milagro
Assault Order Range: 13" for 5 ballistic damage
Melee AO: 9" for 3 damage
DFA: 9" for 5 damage

Grinder
Assault Order Range: 18" for 6 energy damage
Assault Order Range: 16" for 4 energy damage or 8 (Pulse) damage
Melee AO: 7" for 4 damage

Both: 23 defense 11 Attack

Milagro Advantages:
Jump Jet Capable
Vent 3
Much Better Heat Dial
Jade Falcon abilities (MDFA)
Milagro Disadvantages:
More Repair Markers
Stats Degrade Faster
Can blow up for 3 damage with heat effects

Grinder Advantages:
Better Range
Better Damage
Stats are more stable
Can't blow itself up
Less repair markers
Late dial improved targeting
Grinder Disadvantages:
Heat dial ('nuff said)
Slower speed
No Jump Jets
More expensive
Really bad heat dial
Problems with infantry heavy armies

Milagro allows for more points of support units, but I still lean towards Grinder for the better range and damage potential. However, be sure to have plenty of water for Grinder to sit in or else be VERY careful with Grinder's heat dial.

I think you all know my opinion, but what does everyone else think?

As for me, I love the look of both mechs. That being said, I also love ranged firepower. I'd use Grinder more often with some close ranged ballastic support to deal with infantry. The problem I have with Milargo(other than range) is the fact that the little beast can't make effective use of its vent rating since you don't want to put 3 clicks of heat on the mech.

Just a little more to say for Grinder:
- 270 arc is a major blessing, especially when the mech is optimal in water.
- the multiple targets on his primary is extremely good with his arc, as he can target anyone that bases him and his intended target to negate any attack penalty from firing from base contact, although you must use a lower (starting) damage value.
- reactive armor is probably a better buy for Grinder than Decoy simply because he can't afford to have to dance around artillery shells all day long with his heat dial.


- WraithTwo -

@headache62,


Just one correction - the base cost for "Grinder" is 229, not 242 (the MWRealms
units section is wrong).

As for me, I've also thought of fielding her with the pilot/gear combo you
mentioned. For 5 more points, I'll recruit Ryohara to Highlanders, letting
"Grinder" benefit from the +1 defense offered by HL faction pride.

11 attack, 24 defense w/decoy

Evil, eh? :devious:

Or better yet, put santos in Grinder and use the HL/SC SA to increase energy range, and AO for 21 and 19 inches (9 movement)

Yep, that's another possibility. Personally, though, I'd rather be harder to hit. It's a
Highlander thing. ;)

Heavy Blocking terrain, combined with Milagro's JJ gives Milagro the edge (JJ AO over a blocking piece) or you could mount Streaks on Milagro (same cost as Decoy) and wreak a different sort of havoc.

Of course, that's what Barrens is for, right? :)

Speaking as one of the oldest JF players (well, it'd be tough to have been playing JF longer than I have been), I still love JJs. Beats Decoy and Blocking terrain, gets bennies to hit, extra damage and no extra heat. So Milagro will always be my first choice. I'd say both mechs are 'tuned' to a faction: Milagro is a JF-type mech and Grinder is a SC-type mech. If you like setting up at range, duh, Grinder. If you expect a close up brutal fight, or a battle against a 23 Decoy type of mech, I'd take Milagro/JF.

I was thinking of Grinder with Paschke for same stats but 10 less points or Santos for +3 movement and the extra AO range. Gear-wise, there really isn't anything too great out there right now. I was leaning toward IT or Decoy because the Reactive Armor sounded like a waste of points, too easily circumvented. Either easier hitting my target or being harder to hit me.

I'm just liking the sculpt right now, and the paint job. Will make a nice addition to the SC army :)

Chris