Calling all Veteran Mechwarriors.....

I am having a bit of a problem with a "newbie" to the game. He has been playing for less than a year but believes he has all the answers when it comes to artillery in mechwarrior. His thing is that since he reads the FAQ he has all the answers. I have tried to explain it but he must have "DECOY" equipped to himself because I am not getting through.

His Points....


1. Artillery is a ranged combat attack....INCORRECT... as stated in the rules...it is a ranged combat ORDER!!!

2. Evade can be used against it.

3. Can optional damage armor piercing be used in an ARTILLERY attack.

Someone please help me straighten this guy out. He is ex-military so he has a very narrow conception of how the piece should be played. He needs it in BLACK AND WHITE as he puts it otherwise he won't accept it.

Many Thanks to all that respond

Star Commander SHAKA

http://www.wizkidsgames.com/mwdarkag...ulebook_lo.pdf
(should be in here on page 25)
" In order to make an artillery attack, give the unit a ranged combat order. "


So artillery is a ranged combat order wich resolves in the next turn . it targets an area not a specific unit, it ignores defense values of units in blast radius (no non- armor Special Equipment that effects defense will work against artillery so evade and decoy wont work. (exception of Advanced anti missile system)

however optional armor piercing can be used, all other damage gear lile anti personel cant.

You can evade while getting hammered by artillery. No biggie. Just won't do you any good. While he's at it have him eat a sandwich while he's getting pogged by artillery. He'll get the same effect but he'll be full and won't need a SE card. ;) :p

he doesnt get an evade bonus (since the defense value on the marker counts as target) only "evade" he can do is move away from the marker

Your right he won't get a bonus. But if it makes him feel better they can say he used it :p

Thanx Warriors....

Keep the responses coming in. I told this guy all of this..but he still wanted to argue the facts. Now I will just print this out in black and white like he wants and show it to him.

May Kerensky Guide Your Hands

Star Commander SHAKA

Ok here you go.. From and Army Ranger Ret. who has been under arty attacks.
1st Arty does not care if you run in zig zig, IE: evade, lines cause it spreads out in a circle and hits anything in it's blast range. The rules state it is a combat order. Remind him all orders have 2 parts ( real life here sorry), example "ABOUT" this tells your troops to prepare to move and in which direction they are about to move. Then The order FACE this tells the troops to move. Arty in this game works the same way. On turn 1 your place a pog IE telling your troops where to fire. Turn 2 you Roll, your troops fire and the round hits. If this does not work tell him to Stand Down Rules are Rules and sometime real life does not interact with this game. If he still does not understand the rules the ask him to find a SGT of Smoke and have him explain how a fire mission works.

The clarifications you're looking for are in the rule book and SEC...

p 41, Glossary:
In short: Artillery attacks are ranged combat attacks which require a ranged combat order to be made.

p 25, 'Artillery Units', 5th paragraph
SEC, 'Evade'
Evade has no effect on the marker's target value, only the defense value of the unit that Evade is on.

SEC, Armor Piercing
Artillery is a 'ranged combat attack', as shown in #1 above. Since the requirement for AP is that there be a ranged combat attack, it can be used with an artillery attack.

The common counter to this explanation is "Why doesn't Anti-Personnel work then?" Anti-Personnel requires a target unit, which an artillery attack does not have.

It also sometimes helps to point out how a player's misconception of the rules can hurt him. For instance, armor only works against ranged (and close) combat attacks. If he insists that an 'artillery attack' is not a 'ranged combat attack, then he must also accept that armor has NO EFFECT on the artillery attack, thus all artillery attacks are effectively armor piercing under his view.

Hope this helps.

I just want to add that new players often confuse 'orders' and 'attacks'. These are two completely different things. 'Orders' are what you give to a unit which allow them to take an action. An 'attack' is a possible action that can result from an order.

Particularly with the 'ranged combat attack' (RCA for short) it's confusing that the RCA can result from 3 possible orders. A move order (for VTOLs), a ranged combat order (for all units), or an assault order (for Mechs). SECs and gear often draw a difference in use based on whether a ranged combat ORDER has been given or not.

To help illustrate the difference between attacks and orders, here is two lists of the different types of each that is possible under the rules.

ORDERS - move, ranged combat, close combat, assault, vent

ATTACKS - ranged combat, close combat, special

Note that ALL actions are initiated by one of the five types of orders, and ALL attacks are one of the three basic attack types.

Thannx ALL

In the rule book under artillery....they do divide the artillery unit's order into 3 options (listed on pg.25):

"If your artillery unit's attack value is greater than 0, you may give it a ranged combat order. This oder may be used in one of three ways: as a ranged combat attack, an indirect fire attack or an artillery attack.

Thanks again....keep it coming....the more I have the smoother our venue's games will be

Star Commander SHAKA

Note that both the 'indirect fire attack' and 'artillery attack' are subtypes of the 'ranged combat attack'.

It's like saying a Dodge Ram is a type of truck, but not all trucks are Dodge Rams.

In the same way, an artillery attack is a type of ranged combat attack.