I just read that Wizards of the Cost will eliminate the Chainmail line of products. They are going to absorb them into the D&D product line.

Guess they can't compete with WK and MK!!

I have found several dyed in the wool MTG players begin to play Hero Clicks. I think Mech Warrior will bring in a ton of new players and WK will begin to really take the wind out of GWS and WOTC.

I don't mean to bad mouth those companies. I just like that the company that I support has such a bright future.

Well, nothing is sertain in this world. I bet WOTC believed that their whole idea of baning cards would make their game more exchiting (eliminate power cards that could be teh cornerstone of a deck cause that deck to no longer vaiable), but the magority of players don't like this. Would you like it if one day WK decided to ban all of the figures from the Rebellion set, forcing people to buy Unlimited? Both of these situations are detirmined by popular opinion and the players (also the marketing exces. but...;) ). Also I think it makes more sense to conslidate is D&D line by bringing everything under the same dept.

It's undoubtably cheaper to streamline operations by taking what amounts to a D&D miniature game into the main D&D development and marketing line.

I wouldn't venture to read too much into the 'competition', although I'm sure it was a factor.

I honestly doubt that Chainmail and Mage Knight were ever in serious competition. Other than them being miniature games, there was very little similar to the two of them. WOTC decision to dump Chainmail was a profit driven motive. IT was not making gobs and gobs of money so it was droped. Yes they will continue to make miniatures for DnD but Chainmail has gone the way of the Dodo.

Mage Knight has no real competitors for their part of the market. Yes they are a miniature game but their target market is not the same as GW or WOTC. Mage Knight is aiming for a younger audience than either of those games. And before the flames start about MK not being just for kids let me clarify. GW and WOTC were miniature games that had rule books with more rules and exceptions to rules than MK. Chainmail had a small rule book but it was not as straight forward as MK's. GW and WOTC are both going for the hobbiests as much as the gamers. MK coming prepainted makes a lot of the hobbiests and painters shy away from it. Old school wargammers like big books of rules. MK does not satisfy that need. Wiz Kids have found a niche in the market that GW was not satisfying, and they have succeded. I think that most people who made Wiz Kids might even admit that the game is doing much better than they first expected.

Mage Knight has invented the CMG market and consequently they are the king. If you read other forums for other mini games they disdain Mage Knight as childish and not to their taste. This does not make the wrong, but just a person with an opinion. many people here have a disdain for GW and other mini games for many reasons. Again people with an opinion. This just shows that the target market for the GW, MK and Chainmail are different. People like what they like and many Chainmail players are very upset, but most will not be playing MK it is not to their tastes.

MK is to my tastes as was Chainmail. I like miniature games and each one satisfys a need for me. Sometimes I like it quick and dirty, others I like a slow well thought out game. So I end up playing many games to satisfy my many tastes. Rabidgerbal is one member of the board that loves games in the way that I do. We love a good game. No need to bash a game or celebrate it's demise. To me it is sad that there is one less great game for me to play and ponder. I mourn the loss.

The Rabbidgerbal is actually hoping to run across a sale on a rules book for chainmail now so he can at least look through the rules before they go into the night!

perhaps all of these other games work to improve mage knight and her offspring too. Wizkids is forced to improve their sculpts and paint jobs to run against the pack... they look to improve on the complexity of some wargames as well as the price.

Gestault said about the whole being greater than the sum of the parts. Don't forget some dude looked at Warhammer a while back and got the whole concept for Mage Knight. Chainmail might have offered inspiration for a sculpt for the jarl frostdriven or something? maybe it's rules gave wizkids designers something to think about for the future.

The Rabbidgerbal doesn't own any chainmail, (yet?) but you can't down them for trying to bring the joy of gaming to people. The Frothing one morns too.

I agree with JugglingFool... I just recently started playing Mage Knight because i've always wanted to try a CMG but could never afford it... it's clear that Mage Knight is aimed at younger people but at the same time they are utilizing a whole new market of people like me who are gamers but not painters and people who want to play CMGs but don't want to pay $6 per miniature... so it's not as if WK pulled me away from GWS or WOtC its just that MK gave me the opportunity to try something new without a large investment

The only people i knew who bought Chainmail bought them for the mini's, not the game.

Tho i think Juggling fool hit it right on the head.

Like there are any other miniature games. Mage Knight is the only miniataure game worth mentioning. May all other "miniature" games decay on the shelves unpurchased and denied by the world.

Froby, I think that is exactly what we are talking about. Too many people who play Warhammer and Chainmail have that "My game is the best , the others don't even need to be looked at!"

The other games are great and all, but in general we play MK because it fits our interests. Most of us don't like painting, or assembling. As has been stated, our game is more for PLAYERS, while theirs is partly just for Hobbiests.

(I hadn't meant to flame anyone, by the way.)

I'm not very happy that chainmail is dying, it is a very fun game that In my opinion is almost as fun as MK. I really don't think it was a rival of MK since it was aimed at a different group. Just because you like a game better, doesn't mean it is the best game in the world, and should be the only game in the world.

Sorry, but I'm going to have to disagree with just about everyone here on this. The target market for wargames of all stripes are exactly the same - males, from 12 to old age (once the hook is set).

The idea that the average 12 year old *who is interested enough to pick it up* can't fathom the rules to Warhammer is ludicrous. It's a self selecting group; if you like fantasy adventure then you like to read. And if you like to read, then you can understand any mini game rules written (read them sometimes... they're sure not aimed at PhDs). And if you can do that then you're in the market.

At issue is the size of that market. It's small. Always has been. And it's been one of many screw ups in the gaming industry that they don't actively market to *new* players, instead cannibalising our existing band-of-geeks every time a new game is put out.

D&D and Video Games and M:tG have not really changed that dynamic. While each has grown the market population (especially video games, the *real* engine behind all growth in games sales by making "playing games" acceptably cool), it's not changed the basic fact that the "target market" for a new game is... people who already play games!

The idea that MK isn't in head to head battle with Chainmail is laughably wrong! The same for those who say Conquest is not a competitor for Wahammer Fantasy. They are direct rivals for *your* dollars. And each company knows it, and preys on each other's ideas to put out the next thing that will take your dollars in, and away from the other guy.

The games industry (above the level of fanzine and garage shop), is one of the most dog-eat-dog, brutally competitive industries out there. Don't fool yourself; they all want to see each other dead. It's up to us, the consumers, to keep The Hobby strong by using our dollars to support the best of it. The companies involved would like nothing better than a monopoly... assuming they were the one left with it!

I agree with you totally, Balduran (surprise, surprise). I will also state here what I said to you last week. I think MK will continue to succeed because it appeals to a wider base of people than its rivals. I have run a couple of demos, and had the parents totally interested, some more than the kids. MK is easy to pick up quickly - two 1 hour sessions and I can teach you the whole thing. But the finer points? They take time. That's how any good game hooks you! It is simple to learn rudiments, and has enough depth to make play fun for even the most advanced player. I am not just talking about hardcore games. Look at Scrabble. Monopoly. Exact same principle.

That's why I love MK. I have a family. I have a life. I cannot devote every waking moment to assembling, then painting, *then* playing. It needs to be easier. MK is, and it still is a huge strategic challenge if you wanna get that deep into it. It rocks! No wonder I am now buying cases at a time!

Bri

At my venue today, a guy mentioned to me (one that I trust to know what he is talking about) that while Chainmail is dead, WOTC is now going to produce a game using plastic, painted miniatures with some sort of dial along with a book of stats or something of the like. Sounds a bit familiar, doesn't it... Anyways, just thought I'd see if anyone has heard the same thing.

I know of TWO minis games in the works right now that will use plastic prepainted minis with a sort of "clicker dial" that will keep track of damage (and stats). Neither of these games is associated with WizKids, though, and neither uses the Combat Dial (patent pending).

...and the one figure I got a good look at basically simply uses a little widget on its base to keep track of damage. Not much comparison to what a Combat Dial does.

I was sad to hear of Chainmails death. I never played the game but I did pick up the figs I liked either for D&D or to put on a MK dial (like the human shadow priest for my avante reaver).