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The Relocation thing isn't in contradiction to the letter of the rules, though I can understand why you feel that it goes against the spirit of the rules.
The rules say:
"When you flip a location, place any other location you control with the same name into your KO'd pile." (emphasis added by me)
Relocation doesn't involve you flipping a second location, just moving and taking control of it, ergo no KO.
The recovery thing would, however, seem to contradict the statement in the rulebook - though in fairness I must admit I have not seen the thread in which this was stated or the reasoning behind it.
________ Efini ms-8
Originally posted by bizzarnage The Relocation thing isn't in contradiction to the letter of the rules, though I can understand why you feel that it goes against the spirit of the rules.
The rules say:
"When you flip a location, place any other location you control with the same name into your KO'd pile." (emphasis added by me)
Relocation doesn't involve you flipping a second location, just moving and taking control of it, ergo no KO.
I agree with that much but that's not the problem. The problem is that locations and non-Army characters are unique. Unique means only one copy can be under your control at any given time.
Imagine I cast a spell to steal an opponent's character in Magic. If that character is a duplicate of one of mine *and* a Legend, my Legend would go to the graveyard. The reason is simple: you may only control one copy of any given permanent with the subtype Legend or Legendary.
This is clearly where UDE got the Unique mechanic. I'm a bit perturbed to see it broken without a specific effect to the contrary.
actually. in Magic it is considerably more clear. There can only be one copy of any given legend in play. A copy of a legend is simply destroyed upon being played so the analogy isnt a good one.
The main problem with this is that characters are not exclusively unique. You can have 2 copies of Dr. Doom in play, one on each side of the table. That is what causes the problem.
In a way it makes sense that you should ko the resource but on the otherhand, if I steal something of yours I lose something of mine? Just doesnt seem cricket :P
What would make most sense is if the copy of the location is nullified and is considered just a resource rather than a copy of a unique location. That way you deny their location (which is the whole point of Relocation) and arent giving your opponent an extra turn.
Originally posted by Hydra67 actually. in Magic it is considerably more clear. There can only be one copy of any given legend in play. A copy of a legend is simply destroyed upon being played so the analogy isnt a good one.[/i]
You are quite correct. Shows how often I play with Legends. ;)
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The main problem with this is that characters are not exclusively unique. You can have 2 copies of Dr. Doom in play, one on each side of the table. That is what causes the problem.
The basic rulebook addresses this by explaining that each player may have only one copy of a unique character or location in play at any given time.
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In a way it makes sense that you should ko the resource but on the otherhand, if I steal something of yours I lose something of mine? Just doesnt seem cricket :P
Quite frankly, I think this is precisely why UDE is contradicting the rules. It would make more sense to issue errata for Relocation either specifically negating the Unique rule or forcing you to flip the ill-gotten location face down upon resolution (as you suggested).
Originally posted by Zaxx I agree with that much but that's not the problem. The problem is that locations and non-Army characters are unique. Unique means only one copy can be under your control at any given time.
Imagine I cast a spell to steal an opponent's character in Magic. If that character is a duplicate of one of mine *and* a Legend, my Legend would go to the graveyard. The reason is simple: you may only control one copy of any given permanent with the subtype Legend or Legendary.
This is clearly where UDE got the Unique mechanic. I'm a bit perturbed to see it broken without a specific effect to the contrary.
The reason that a legend would go into a graveyard in Magic is state based effect check (specifically the legend rule check) that is checked whenever someone is about to get priority.
The only real reason to have state based effects in the game is to keep track of damage on permanents.
VS system TCG does NOT keep track of damage on objects in play, so we decided to not have an equivalent of state based effects in the game. As such, the only other time you can do a "uniqueness check" would be when a character or equipment changes zones (specifically comes into the "in play" zone) or when locations are flipped face-up.
The rule book that comes with the starter cannot be overly complicated and cover every single corner case that might happen in the game. That would scare off new players. Imagine buying a game and having to read a 20-30 page word document to learn how to play!
To go back to the Magic example, rules are constantly updated. This is normal. As we create new mechanics and generally make our rules as bullet proof as possible, we'll be hitting you guys with new things and offering clarifications. Without that the game would stagnate.
Originally posted by alex_charsky
VS system TCG does NOT keep track of damage on objects in play, so we decided to not have an equivalent of state based effects in the game. As such, the only other time you can do a "uniqueness check" would be when a character or equipment changes zones (specifically comes into the "in play" zone) or when locations are flipped face-up.
Now that's an explanation I can cope with. More importantly, it arms me with the knowledge I'll need to defend Relocation's seemingly broken effect on locations and uniqueness.
Thanks for taking the time to share that with us, Alex. It is much appreciated.