if sub-mariner attacks a support row teen titans character and heroic sacrifice is played, targeting the defender, does submariner ready?


character (sub-mariner, ally of doom: text)

Recruit Sub-Mainer only if you control Dr. Doom.
When Sub-Mariner attacks a support row character, ready Sub-Mariner.


plot twist (heroic sacrifice: text)

As an addiional cost to play Heroic Sacrifice, stun a non-defending Teen Tians character you conol.
Exaust target Teen Titans defender you control and remove all attackers fom this attack.

Yes.

Yep, Heroic Sacrifce does not prevent a character from reading.

my understanding is that heroic sacrifice does prevent an attacker from readying, becuase the defender is not removed from the attack.

Sub-Mariner's effect triggers when he gets the attacker characteristic while attacking a support row character. Removing Sub-Mariner from the attack does not prevent the fact that Sub-Mariner had the attacker characteristic and Heroic Sacrifice does not remove Sub-Mariner's effect from the chain.

Sub-Mariner will ready because of his effect, irregardless of being removed from the attack.

Yes, he readies. Anyways he's ready from the moment he becomes a legal attacker.

Yep, like he said:p

This isn't true (but very close). There is an effect on the chain that says 'Ready Sub-Mariner' once he becomes a legal attacker but he won't actually ready until that effect resolves.

Think of it this way. Sub-Mariner has to be an attacker to be affected by Heroic Sacrifice. Once Sub-Mariner becomes an attacker his effect goes on the chain. So, even though he gets removed from the attack by Heroic Sacrifice his effect will still resolve and ready him.

Your understanding is a little off.

The only time an attacker readies is when you go to attack conclusion and there is an attacker, and no defender. The game then causes the attacker to ready.

In the case of the defending player using Heroic Sacrifice, it removes the attacker from the attack. When you go to attack conclusion, there is a defender, but no attacker, so nothing happens.

I've got a complicated question regarding when an attack concludes. Basically, does the attack conclude the instant the defender leaves the attack or is there some period before that happens. I'll explain the relevance.

8 drop doom attacks a 3 drop titan. Before attack conclusion, the titan is targeted with reign and reign goes on the chain. In response to the reign, the titan player plays heroic sacrifice. It's my understanding that in this situation doom would be removed from the attack then the titan would return to hand and Doom would still be exhausted. Now, let's make it more interesting, let's say that the Doom player plays a second reign in response to the heroic sacrifice. Here's where the precise attack conclusion mechanics become important. If the attack nullifies the instant the defender leaves the attack then doom should ready. If the chain must clear first then doom would still get removed from the attack and still be stuck in exhausted position.

You do not go to attack conclusion until both players pass on an empty chain. A character gaining or losing the attacker/defender charactersitic does not force the game into attack conclusion.

Once both players passed on an empty chain you would go into attack conlusiton and both the defender and attacker are missing, so nothing happens.

Then RoT would resolve bouncing the TT back to its owner's hand. When Heroic Sacraifce tried to resolve, it would be negated bescuase if an illegal target, as would the other RoT.

THe chain must be emty in order to proceed to the attack conclusion, but it still does not work that way. HS would have been negated due to an illegal target and Dr. Doom would not have been removed from the attack.

you had me at "must pass on empty chain" but thanks for the thoroughness

so to be sure. in the situation above where the 2nd RoT was played, is doom/8 readied?

~
Heroic Sacrifice
As an additional cost to play Heroic Sacrifice, stun a non-defending Teen Titans character you control.
Exhaust target Teen Titans defender you control and remove all attackers from this attack.
`

So when Heroic trys to resolve it checks to find a TT defender and 'all attackers'. If it finds no defender, but it does find doom/8. My question is, if the defender is removed using RoT, does that makes Doom not an attacker when HS tries to resolve??

if we havn't concluded the attack, does the comp rules really allow for a character to loose the attacker/defender characteristics while a chain is resolving while the card is still on the board.

if doom/8 is found, and game mechanics keeps him in attacker status, he would not ready right?

thanks!

BE- IF the defender was Reign of Terror'd the second time, then there will be no defender when Heroic Sacrifice resolves. With its target gone, its effect will be negated.

~Tombster212