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I was answering someones question about this yesterday and I wanted to verify a few details.
Donna's triggered power is "Whenever Donna Troy becomes stunned, return Donna Troy to owner's hand."
Now if enough Gotham Knights team attackers to trigger GCPD Headquarters attempt to stun Donna, which triggered effect goes off first? "Whenever three or more Gotham Knights team attackers you control stun a defender, KO that defender."
My reasonings were from the CGR that states: "504.2 The player that plays the effect is the controller of that effect. If an effect is triggered, the player who controlled the object that triggered an effect, at the time it triggered, is the controller of that effect."
So my way of thinking was that the controller of GCPD Headquarters controlled both triggered effects and could decide the order.
Thinking it and rethinking it is starting to make me question that. Paticularly, the "becomes" in Donna's text is bothering me. Does Donna even stun before she returns to the hand?
When multiple triggered effects trigger at the same time, the primary player places their effects on the chain first, then followed by each other player.
If the GCPDs are attacking Donna, then the player controlling the GCPDs is the primary player.
GCPD HQs effect is placed on the chain first, followed by Donna's effect on the chain. The chain resolves last in, first out. So in this instance, Donna's effect will resolve first, and she will be returned to hand. Then the GCPD HQ effect will resolve without doing anything.
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703.3 If multiple triggered effects trigger simultaneously, they will all be added to the chain the next time the game instructs players to add triggered effects to the chain. The primary player gets to choose in what order his or her triggered effects go on the chain, and then they are added to the chain. Then the next player clockwise from the primary player gets to choose in what order his or her triggered effects go on the chain, and then his or her triggered effects are added to the chain on top of the previous player's. Then the next player clockwise from that player does the same, and so on. (See rule 506.3.)
Glossary:
Primary Player
The primary player is the player whose step it is, if players are in a step or a substep. If players are not in a specific step or a substep, then the player who has initiative this turn is the primary player.
Isn't the Gotham Knights player in this case the controller of these two effects as per Rule 504.2. Isn't he is the one responsible for triggering both effects?
Also, one of the things that was bothering me was that Donna's text differs from Toad's and Kevlar Body Armor's in that she doesn't use the phrase "if' she "would become", but the phrase "when" she "becomes".
I realize this is a subtle difference but I've learned not to take the subtle differences in this game for granted. They've always been more precise with the card text then in some other games.
If Donna is like Toad, then wouldn't she not stun, and would have to be returned to the hand before GCPD HQ could resolve? I don't view her text this way myself, but clearly I'm missing something.
502.1 Triggered powers are identified by the words "at," "when," or "whenever." Triggered powers wait for their trigger conditions to be met either by an event in the game or by the state of the game, at which point they trigger. Triggered powers generate triggered effects on the chain. "At random" does not denote a triggered power.
Together with the above, 504.2 States that GCPD HQs controller is the controller of that effect. And Donna's controller is the controller of her effect.
Donna has a triggered power, whenever she becomes stunned, she places a triggered effect on the chain. Her controller controls that triggered effect she placed on the chain.
GCPD HQ also has a triggered power that triggered when Donna becomes stunned, and that too places a triggered effect on the chain. Because we now have 2 events triggering simultaneously, 703.3 quoted above will determine the order of which the 2 effects are placed on the chain.
Toad and Kevlar Body Armor mainly differ from Donna because of the word 'instead' in their effect. They have replacment modifiers.
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513.5a Modifiers that use "instead" are replacement modifiers. A replacement modifier replaces an event with another event. The replaced event never happens; any powers or modifiers that would have triggered off of the replaced event will not trigger. A replacement modifier may replace an event any time, even during the resolution of an effect.
If say 3 GCPD officers attack Toad, and Toad would become stunned, Toad's controller may return Toad to hand instead. If he does, then GCPD HQs effect does not tigger, as Toad never did get stunned, that stun was replaced (and also why he does not take stun endurance loss).
I'm still missing something here. 504.2 very clearly says: If an effect is triggered, the player who controlled the object that triggered an effect, at the time it triggered, is the controller of that effect."
Since its the Gotham Knights attackers that are responsible for stunning Donna, how is it their owner is not considered the controller of that effect?