Between the two titans of CCG gaming - Magic: the Gathering and VS System, do you:

a) Think is better
b) Think is funner
c) Out does the other presently
d) Will out do each other in a few years from now.

Why do you think so? Many people here are Magic afficiendos or former tour players so I am curious as to what you guys think?

I think VS system will lose out to Magic.

Well I played Magic years ago but it pissed me off when my cards were phased out and could no longer be used. Also the fact that in Type 1 I didn't have all the old broken cards.

At least with Vs, none of the cards have been phased out, but even if they do they hopefully will keep GA going and I have cards from teh first set in this game.

Vs is alot funner as I used to have alot of rules arguments in Magic but have had almost none in this game.

If they keep throwing money at the game it will eventually rise to challenge Magic but I doubt Magic will ever die. I can't say the same for Vs, they will eventually run out of material.

I wanted to get into magic so much because I wanted a good solid game that won't die out in a couple of years and had alot of players to play with. Magic had all of this.
I bought all these packs, and went to some tourneys, and play tested against other people, but it really wasn't fun. I wanted it to be fun because of the above reasons, but I think I was forcing myself to play instead of wanting to play.
I think alot of card games are fun. Some are Balanced and Unbalenced (*cough yugioh cough*) But yugioh is still fun. When someone looks at all the card games they could play out there, why would someone choose VS over say, TT TCG, Yu-gi-oh, Duel Masters, Magic or Dragon Ball Z? Why? Why did I choose to play VS. Magic has a 3 million dollar Pro Circiut. So why choose VS? Well, I'll tell you.
Its the excitement of seeing all your favorite Marvel, DC, characters come to life on a card. Movies have been made, TV shows. We have grown up with these characters and love to read and watch them in action. Its the knowledge that this game is going to bring in alot of players because of how well balanced this game is (even though some cards are more widely used than others). Yeah, the money is fine and all, not everybody plays for the money, but you can see some people do, but its all these things combined that I choose VS over all the others.

i really hate that line, and have been hearing from people that really don't know much about comics.

with over 60-70 years of comics history from both Dc and marvel, just how will they run out any material intheir first 10 year plan. hell, #### ten years, in the recent mategame article, it was mentioned that the master list of possible sets goes way beyond that.

with reprinting old news like they are doing with the x-men, set they can squeeze out even more sets. and do you have any idea just how many possible teams there that they can do?

Marvel
2099 Villains
AoA X-Men(X-Men?)
All-Winner's Squad(?)
Acolytes
AIM(HYDRA?)
Alpha Flight
Asgardians
Askani(?)
Atlanteans
Batroc Brigade(HYDRA/????)
Big Hero Six(?)
Brood
Champions
Champions of Xandar(?)
Circus of Crime(Crimelords?)
Damage Control
Dark Riders(Horsemen?)
Deathrows(????)
Defenders
Dire Wraiths
Dragon's Circle(Defenders?)
Enforcers(CrimeLords/Sinister Syndicate?)
Eternals
Euroforce(?)
Excalibur(X-Men?)
Exclisor(?)
eXiles
Fantastic Force(Fantastic Four?)
Factor Three
First Line(?)
Force Works(West Coast Avengers?)
Freedom Force(Brotherhood?)
Frightful Four(Doom?)
Gamma Flight
Generation Next(AoA X-Men?/X-Men?)
Generation X(X-Men?)
Great Lakes Avengers(Avengers?)
Guardians of the Galaxy
Heliopitians(?)
Hellfire Club
Hellions(Hellfire Club?)
Heralds of Galactus
Heroes for Hire(Marvel Knights?)
Horseman of Apocalypse
Hulkbusters(Hulk Enemies?)
Hulk Enemies(Hulkbusters?)
Human Resistance (AoA/?)
Howling Commandos(SHIELD?)
HYDRA
Imperial Guard(Shi'Ar?)
Infinity Watch
Inhumans(FF?)
Invaders
Iron Man Villains(?)
Knights of Pendragon(?)
Kree
Lethal Legion(?)
Livewires(?)
Maggia(Crimelords?)
Marauders
Marvel 2099(?)
Marvel Monsters
Marvel Mystics(Marvel Knights?/Defenders?)
Morlocks
Mutant Liberation Front
Mys-tech(?)
New Mutants(X-Men?)
New Warriors
Night Shift(Crimelords?)
Panthenon
Phalanx(?)
Power Pack
The Pride
Reavers
Runaways
Savage Land Mutates(Brotherhood?)
Serpent Society
Serpent Squad(Serpent Society?)
Shi'Ar
SHIELD
Six-Pack(X-Force/X-Men?)
Skrullbusters
Squadron Sinister(?/Squadron Supreme?)
StarJammers
S.W.O.R.D.(SHIELD?)
Symbiotes(?)
U-Foes(Hulk Enemies?)
Ultimates
Ultimate Adventurers(Ultimates?)
Ultimate Fantastic Four
Ultimate Six
Ultimate X-Men
ULTIMATUM
Weapon X
X-Factor(X-Men?)
X-Force(X-Men?)
X-Men 2099(Marvel 2099?)
XSE
X-Terminators(X-Men/X-Factor?)
West Coast Avengers(Avengers?)
Western Heroes(?)
Winter Guard(?)
Young Gods
Zn'Rx/Snarks(?)

DC
The 100(?)
The 1000(?)
2000 Committee(?)
Academy of Crime(?)
Accelerated Gentleman's Club(?)
Adventurer's Club(?)
Affiliated Planets of the 31st Century(?)
Agenda(?)
Ajan Enterprises(?)
The Alliance(?)
Allied Solar Enterprises(?)
Altered Strain(?)
All-Star Squadron(JSA?)
Amazons
The Ancients(?/JLA?)
Aquaman Allies(?)
Aquaman Enemies(?)
Archer Enemies(?)
Army of Crime(?)
A.S.A.(?)
Atari Force(?)
Atom Project(?)
Atomic Knights(?)
Atlantic Patrol(?)
Atlas Corporation(?)
Axis Amerika(?)
Birds of Prey(Gotham Knights?)
Bizarro
Biospheer Technologies(?)
Blackfoot Clan(?)
Blackhawks(WWII Heroes?)
Black Ops(?)
Black Reign(?)
Black Zeros(?)
Blasters
Blight
Bloodpack(?)
Blue Boys(?)
Blue Trinity(?)
Body Doubles(?)
Boy Commandos(WWII Heroes?)
Brotherhood of the Bat(?)
Brotherhood of Dada(?/Brotherhood of Evil/Fearsome Five?)
Brotherhood of Evil(Fearsome Five?)
The Cadre(?)
CAELOSS(?)
Captains of Industry(?)
CBI(?)
Chaingang(?)
Challengers of the Unknown
Charlton Heroes (?)
Checkmate
the Circle(?)
Circle of Fire(?)
Citadel(?)
Clock King's Clockwatchers(????)
Combine(?)
The Conglomerate(?)
Controllers(?)
Corps Corp.(?)
The Council(?)
Creature Commandos(?)
Crime Champions(?)
Crime Council(?)
Crime Crusaders Club(?)
Crusaders(?)
Daichii Doku Clan(?)
Dark Circle(?)
Dark Guardians(?/Vertigo?)
Dark Nemisis(?)
Dark Stars(?)
Dayton Industries(?)
DC 1,000,000
Demolition Team(?)
Demons Three(?)
DEO
Dial H for Hero(?)
The Dingbats of Danger Street(????)
DNAngels(?)
The Dominators(?)
Doom Patrol
Double Dare(???)
Earth-2(JSA?)
Easy Company(World War II Heroes?)
The Elementals of Disaster(????)
The Elite(Revenge Squad?)
Emerald Archers(?)
The Endless(?/Vertigo?)
EuroCrime(?)
Euroguard(?)
the Exchange(/O.G.R.E.?)
Extreme Justice(?)
The Extremists(?/Injustice League?/Injustice Society?)
F.A.N.(?)
Fatal Five
Federal Men(?)
Ferrous(?)
Flash Allies
Flash's Rogues
Force Family(?)
Force of July(?)
Forgotten Heroes(?)
Forgotten Villains(?)
Freedom Brigade(?)
Freedom Fighters(JSA?)
Futuresmiths(?)
Galaxy Communications(?)
the Gang(?)
Gemma Masters(?)
Ghost Dragons(?)
Ghost Patrol(WWII Heroes?)
Global Guardians(?/JLA?)
Gorilla City
Green-Headed League(?)
the Green Team Boy Millionaires(?)
Guardians of the Timeline(?)
Gunner and Sarge(?)
Hallas(?)
Hand Gang(?)
Hand of Krona(?)
The Hangmen(?)
Haunted Tank(?)
Haven(?)
Hawkmen(/Thanagar?)
Helix
Hero Hotline(?)
Hitman Family(?)
HIVE
Human Defense Corps.
Hybrid(Doom Patrol?)
Inferior Five(?)
Infinity Inc.
Injustice Society(Injustice League?)
Justice Society
Kingdom Come(?)
Kingdom Come Villains(?)
Kobra(?)
Lab Rats(?)
League of Challenger Haters(?)
L.E.G.I.O.N.(?)
Legion of Superheroes
Legion of Supervillains
Luthor's Council(Kingdom Come Villains?)
Marvel Family (?)
Marvel Foes(?)
The Maximus(?)
Men from N.O.W.H.E.R.E.(?)
Metal Men
Monster Society of Evil(?)
Mystics
New Guardians(?)
New Brave and Bold(Kingdom Come?)
New Justice League(Kingdom Come?)
Nuclear Family(?)
OMAC
Omega Men
The Onslaught(?)
Outsiders
The People's Heroes(?)
Power Company
Primal Force(?)
Prisoners of the Gulag(Kingdom Come Villains?)
Rann
Ravers(?)
R.E.B.E.L.S.(?)
Relative Heroes(?)
Royal Flush Gang(Injustice League?)
Sea Devils(Forgotten Heroes?)
Secret Six(?)
Seven Soldiers
Sovreign Seven(?)
Soyuz(?)
Starman Allies(?)
Starman Enemies(?)
Suicide Sqaud
Super-Malon(?)
Supermen of America(Team Superman?)
Tartarus(?)
Titans West(Teen Titans?)
Ultra Marines (Suicide Squad?)
Vanguard(?)
Vertigo(?)
Villainy Inc.
The Wanderers(?)
Western Heroes(?)
White Martians(Injustice League?)
World War II Heroes(?)
Young Heroes in Love(?)
Young Justice(JLA/Teen Titans?)



oh yeah, they will have nothing to do.

and let's not forget that after these first ten years, marvel and DC is always making new teams, new characters, so UDe can use the brand new teams, comics are always growing and changing. if/when Vs dies, it will be not be becuase they ran out of material.

Magic is/was a gateway drug,

VS is the strong stuff that keeps you coming back and gives you that tingly feeling every time.

I don't profess to knowing alot about comics, when Avengers came out I had to research all the teams on the net to see what they were about, when I finally picked Kang as the coolest of that set.

However many of the teams on your list are pretty obscure and may not have that much of a following amougst the 'lay' community.

Yeah how many of those teams would you consider marquee, big name teams Cyke? Teams that might entice more people to get into the game? I'm thinking JSA is probably the biggest name there. As for Marvel, I'm not sure.

Jeeze you two lay off,

Besides tell me you have ever heard of some of the magic expansions or characters before the sets came out??

Sure there were a few here and a few there, but the majority were created for the set.

VS has to do the same thing with the cards but all of the characters are already there.

Cyke is just stating that there are many characters still left out of the VS system Universe.

AND yes many of us comic nuts would love to see some of the more obscure characters getting their teams and sets.

Think of the Morlocks in the upcoming X-Men set, how many people really know that much about them if they have not seen the animated series or read any comic?

Well.. Magic reprints cards in each sets... right now the only card that Vs has reprint its Marvel Team-Up.. 1 in 1500+ cards. (Magic have over 10 years [I think] and Vs Just 2)

I hope that someday they will start to reprint cards... i dont care about power rares... cards like: Cover Fire, Nasty S., Finishing Move, Press The Attack

Wow everharm, calm down. I was just saying that in Magic, people were brought in by fantasy themes, rather than well known characters. They continue to play because they were never exposed to huge name characters they had heard of before.

I'm just saying that a lot of people got into VS because of Batman, Superman, Spider-Man, etc, not because of lesser known teams like X-Statix. Sure it's cool that they have cards based on them but a lot of people probably bought Marvel Knights because of the title team, not because it had obscure teams in it. That's all.

I for one enjoy whenever an obscure team comes along.

Each time I have to look up a team I love this game more and more. Heck this darn game has gotten me to actually start to read comic books!

I consider that a big feat in itself since I barely have the money to support the habit of VS.


The problem with VS vs Magic is that Magic does have an eternal Fantasy theme. Which gives them leeway to cut off any old cards and not hurt too many peoples feelings.

Neutering cards in this game can cause a bigger uproar just based on it's affiliation or the deck it's most used in.

But I personally like VS better. Like it was said before, it includes characters that are well known or should be well known, and puts them into a game whose strategic prowess makes the whole game flavorful and enjoyable.

I mean, just the act of trying to explain how your deck or deck concept would work in actual comic books is a fun story waiting to happen. The game is good times all around, and if I have anything to do with it it'll be going for a long time.

For magic... I quit for two reasons. Affinity, the worse mechanic ever. And Kamigawa, a whole block without angels.
That was enough for me.

Locally at least the majority of the VS players are all former MtG players who felt that VS was just a better designed game.

That was a pretty long, but cool list, of characters there cyke. When Vs. runs out of DC or Marvel characters they can go to the smaller label comics...say Top Cow.
I would love to see a Quantum and Woody set. Their goat would be the coolest card...lol:p

Don't forget all of the Punisher's stuff (villians, allies, etc) I know some are out, but not all of them.

I was a magic player for over 8 years before i quit because of 2 major reasons 1. Affinity was getting out of hand and made playing not fun anymore and alot of the people at my store were so into playing that they would harrase you for not making an "obvious play".

When i picked up Vs there was no all powerful deck and ever team had an equal chance to do good. Unlike in magic it was alot easer atleast for me to trade for cards that wear good where in magic the rarity on the cards were bad really good so it was hard to trade your "bad" rares for anything other than bad rares and it was hard to get ahead.

my point is that in my area at least had a magic fallout because of the quality of the sets coming out (5th dawn, Kamigawa) and they went to another game that was prospering.And all of the ones who went to vs never went back.