Ok, we have a local dilemma now. The local store, which has horrible prices, and has not been very supportive of the game in the past, now wants us to host their City Champs. More to the point, they want me to help, but want to keep the actual control under one of the employees. Not going to split hairs here, as getting a Champs might be worth whatever setup they require....

Might.....

As I said, their pack prices are horrible to the tune of $4.50 to $5 a pack. Thats when they actually order. We can drive a mere quarter mile away and get packs at $3.50 each. But the location with poor pricing is the one with play space, and the one that has asked to have help getting a Champs run. Maybe they just see the potential green... and at those pack prices, they WOULD make a killing.

But when asked, they feel that they have been stung with Hobby League in the past. Example, they bought 2 kits... and after 1 month, and about 20 people buying form those kits, they felt they were 'burned' when people did not sign up another month to get the exact same EA cards. So their extras were a loss to them. We never did see these in store, and they DO have an eBay store, so i am not sure how much of a real 'loss' it actually was, but this is pure speculation.

But due to this percieved slight, they have no intention of running a Hobby League. They want to host a Champs, but are not interested in ongoing regular HL support. This may equate to no real weekly support to host events. it almost feels like they want to take the big piece of the pie they thought the PTOs had with events, and not have to support at the local grassroots level.

Thats right, I said have to. the stores SHOULD have to work to keep us as loyal customers, and we shouldn't have to bend over to ensure the store itself it catered to by our purchasing. Thats how the market system works afterall... at least it should.

Now our option is to move to a bigger chain store, who IS interested in Hobby League, if we are consistent with it. They don't have as much product, but will order, and their prices are much better. they don't have as much room, and aren't open quite as many hours, but they are still trying to cater to us, and not the other way around.

I don't want this game to die completely in my area, which it is on it's final leg right now.

My hope is that they change the rules so I can order the HL kits myself, and charge enough to cover my own costs, and give away the prizes. You know, use the kits as intended. And if i can, i want to do it without being attached to any one store. I want to try to play at a few places, and even a friends house where 4 to 8 people gather regularly, and manage the HL kits across multiple sites. This doesn't tie it to any one location over the other.

But for all this, my real question is if there should be a link between HL stores (and i mean ACTIVE HL stores) and the City Champs. Right now it seems nothing in that structure is motivating a store to support the player base at an ongoing level. they can just host the big event, and then drop any involvement for weeks until the next one rolls around. I think as players we should reward a store willing to host a regular tourney structure for us, especially HL, with attending their Champs events. But I have a hard time thinking that stores who offer no ongoing support get to milk one big day of sales and then do nothing else.

Am I alone here? What is everyone elses thoughts?

Honestly, for what it's worth I think the best solution would involve having the store owner read exactly what you've written.

What are they going to do?
Refuse to sell you the packs you already don't buy there?

Air your grievences as best (and tactfully) as you can (and I do mean as best you can, and if they still have no interest in supporting the game beyond cashing in 24/7, then it's their loss. Invest your time elsewhere. (namely at another store that will support VS.

If you want to avoid the responsibility of airing your grievences, just print off your post (as it's annonymous), after having edited it to name their store specifically, and tell them you stumbled upon it and was wondering what they thought.

However I do think the most direct route would be best.

Best of luck.

We plan on using our HL as a Stepping stone for City Champs...
and probably vice versa.

It seems your local retailer is a bit shifty... If they cannot be talked into it, Hold your breath until you pass out and hit your head on a display case... metaphorically.

I say bring your worries and qualms up with the store, and let them know how you feel. Be it in person or anonymously.

Even if the other place does that have enough space to fit, as long as there is enough space to play why not reward them happily for helping support your community? I feel that credit needs to be given where credit is due. If a store is more than willing to help you out, I say do it. It may suck, but who knows. They might expand, or find a way for your players to play more comfortably.

Well, you have to get the Hobby League stuff to get the City Champ stuff. I could see "only get one kit every 3 months" as being their 'plan' ... but if you have to get the Hobby League kit to get the City Champ stuff ANYWAY ... why not run the Hobby League and use up ALL the stuff they paid for?

Depending on the number of people that make the Hobby League, they may decide to keep buying the kits. There is one "big event" in each kit anyway, so they could go with having the 'big event' cover the cost of the kit and then charge a token fee [if not free] for the Hobby League and give out the other stuff at that time. If the kits are paying for themselves just with the "big event" then the only commitment for Hobby League becomes time/area commited to the game.

I hope this is some typo.

Was this store actually selling cards from the kit?

This is not an uncommon practice, Erick, I've seen it happen a bunch of times.

Thats one of the problems with the hobby league kits erick

I think you should try to support both the stores and get them going in both store just make sure the City Champs are on different weekends

Offer to put the money up front for the HL kit. I've heard they are not expensive -- like $20 or so.

Try to get the store to not sell the HL stuff (if that's what they're doing, it's a little unclear.) If need be, see if they'll just charge like $1 to join on HL night.

Maybe calmly and politely ask if it's possible they charge $4 per pack. Tell him he might make up the difference on volume.

How can a store expect to run a successful Hobby League if they just sell the contents of the kit?

All they are doing is ruining a potential source of income for a short term profit.

This is one of the reasons why UDE does not want to put "good" EAs into an HL kit.

That's just it, they don't expect to, or even try to. They just want to make money, which is why the players should have the option of running their own Hobby League, so we don't have to rely on unscrupulous store owners.

It seems they're driving their customer base away anyway.

If you do not agree with the way they conduact their business, don't help them out. Bty helping them out you ar just contributing to their cause. I'd say **** them. Let them drive their customer base to the ground themselves, don't put your reputation as a person/player on the line with it.

Just a question... is it confirmed that the only way to get a City Champs is to actually be a HL store and host an active HL?

I would LOVE if there was a requirement. Like x distinct registered players, playing y number of games minimum in a 3 month period. Maybe they need at least 12 registered players, and each must have at least 5 HL games registered during the quarter. Thats a minimum of 60 games toward HL per quarter... which is MORE than reasonable.

I would just love to see some struture so this rewards only sites that first support the community. Then it is a real easy sell.

But again... is it confirmed that you must run a HL to get the City Champ event?

Well, seeing is how the City Champs support comes WITH the hobby league kit, they have to at least "run" hobby league for that month. I guess there's nothing stopping them from falsely claiming that they're running hobby league and only doing the City Champs.

This is why whoever decided to abandon PTO's and let regular stores decide the entire life of VS System needs to have their head examined or as my old friend Garfield said "dragged out into the street and shot."

The City Championships and other PCQ level events should be run by PTO's who know what they're doing. Why is VS the only UDE game without something for UDE PTO's to organize? Yugi and WoW get regionals, why can't we? Lots of major cities, like St. Louis, can't get a Hobby League because of inept local stores.