For mafia, I would lean towards one kill one power, but I've yet to have to make that choice, so whatever.

And for SK...I mean, how would they not get two kills?

Well I guess I made it past N1 this time but still died too quick
So I went into D1 assuming Space Jawa killed Morph, only for the vig to come out and admit to it. What were you up to there Jawa?

Well that game didn't take long.

Can you clarify?

I am upset about dying, and maybe I shouldn't have left Mana alive when I did, because that was probably a clue-in to me being mafia.

But seriously, congrats to Mana for still being undefeated in Mafia thus far! I'm proud of you

N1 i tracked you targeting morph and initially assumed i caught the killer. Just curious what you were doing targeting them.
Or was I messed with?

When I saw you talking about leaving Mana alive for the sole reason that Mana would be upset with you over being night killed, I was thinking to myself "that kind of attitude is going to lose you the game"

On the other hand I also did wonder if it would work to let it slide for just that night on grounds that the doctor would inevitably be giving Mana cover.

And going undefeated in mafia doesn't go quite as far when the Mafia is actively avoiding killing that person with an agreement up first to let a night-one death slide for the sole reason of that person being a new player.

That said, I think that now the next time I have a kill power and in a game with Mana I may just have my night one death target already set so that the new player can get a taste of the flip side of things.

To my knowledge, Johanna made the kill every night possible with Vicious providing RB Nexus cover up until Johanna died.

The only thing I did my two nights was use my random misdirect power.

I was going to just ignore this comment and the way it made me feel, because I have been know to take things too personally before, and that may still be the case here. However, the bad feeling in my stomach is getting worse instead of going away as time passes, so I have to say something.

I don't play to win. I play to have fun. Do I enjoy winning? Sure. Do I really care about it in the end? Not really. When I care too much about whether or not I win the game, that's when I get miserable and my mental health goes to hell. I've been in that place before, and I do not want to go back. I'm sorry if you only have fun in a game if you win, but that is so not my problem. It's this kind of attitude and stress that made me quit playing mafia in the first place.

Also, if you take your frustration with how I play the game out on my best friend, we are going to have a real problem.

I understand playing to have fun. If I didn't care about having fun and just cared about my ability to win, I wouldn't play Mafia. Note that I hold the self-declared title of the 'Worst Mafia Serial Killer in the History of Mafia'. I've even got the link to my retelling of the tale of the one game where everything went wrong for me saved in my signature because of how great a story said failure makes.

However, it's one thing to play to have fun. It's another thing entirely to willingly handicap yourself and actively put Out-Of-Game interests and concerns of another player that is on the opposing side ahead of the interests of the team you're supposed to be a part of.

I'm just frustrated with the double whammy that ruined my original plan.

Once I got my character, I was thrilled. I planned to post the heck out of the game. I was going to out Blatant Cashgrab Blatant Cashgrab! I was going to be demanding clicks for my clues, turning comments on everything into clickbait...

But then...

First I got sick and could barely post. Okay, I thought, maybe I can still kind of make this work. Then all but one of my clue cop targets died the same night I targeted them.

My beautiful plan...foiled

Yes but you should still play to win, that is what makes it fun for everyone, and sometimes that means offing a friend if that is the best move. I'm sure they would understand.

I never found a good spot to go Umm phrasing? either

To be clear, I never said "We can't kill Mana"
I said I wasn't happy about it, but I understood that it was the best play. I was willing to do it. I'm not an idiot, and I'm not totally selfish. Seriously, would you rather if I just didn't play and stuck to modding?

Ok, so I wasn’t going to say anything because Johanna is a grown up and defend themselves. But like now I’m offended personally. I know how the game is played, do I like to win? Yes. And did it help that Johanna was unhappy with night killing me? Yes. But were they willing to do it? Yes. We know each other but that doesn’t mean that we deliberately sabotage the game so the other can win.

Look, do what you want if you want to night kill me night 1 if we play a game together again. Give the newbie “a taste of the flip side”. I like winning, but I also like playing. And getting night killed is a part of it. I was honestly expecting that I would get night killed. Stuff happens, people get killed, not everyone lives. I would say I’m sorry that I won, but I’m not sorry. Not if you are going to be rude. If you think that Johanna and I had some sort of agreement not to night kill each other then you would be mistaken. There is a difference between not night killing each other because we don’t want to and because it would be a tip off to the other that were mafia, probably. And for the record I won my first two games because I am a good player, not because Johanna held my hand and let me win.

I think what Jawa is trying to convey is that the social contract of these types of games implies that we’re all on even ground in as much as the game mechanics allow (I.e. mafia has the advantage of knowing who’s mafia, and townies don’t). But when someone uses meta reasons (and I know it’s hard not to), such as I want to kill X player because of vengeance from another game, or I’m not gonna target Grinner because I like him, etc., it tends to throw a wrench in the even ground the game presupposes.

That said, don’t take things so personally Johanna. I’m sure no one wants you stop playing, and I’m sure any critique is meant with respect even if it doesn’t seem that way. And Mana, I didn’t play with you in the first 2 game you won so I couldn’t say either way, but in the first 5-8 games people play, most veteran players will give them a pass, and not necessarily gun for them, not just because they’re new, but because they aren’t seen as a threat yet. And often rightfully so, because they haven’t done anything yet to earn other players’ respect from a gameplay perspective. And I’m not trying to be rude to either of you so please do not take it that way.

So should we just share our roles and powers ourselves at this point?

I went back to lurking HCR mafia games because I'd forgotten how much I dislike the "meta" game. The following bits may be seen as criticism, so let me lead by saying that I appreciate write-ups that are NOT chock full of "clues" and (self-indulgent?) writing by the masters. It takes a special kind of game to tolerate detailed write-ups.. and even then folks who might really enjoy playing can get eliminated too early, so it is something of a wash.

Here are just a couple of the "meta" things I dislike:

• (as mentioned above) choices motivated by other games
• disengaged players... I can totally grok a mafia member, or a SK, "missing" a day phase, but I think it is bad form in a social game.
• strategically: I tolerate (and support) the early-game information imbalance, but my read of the threads is that it typically gets worse. This may be a biased reading, but "dumb luck" shouldn't always be the reason one side wins.

I see mafia as primarily a social game using information gathered in-game, by people playing the game by taking night actions, discussing things during the day. I think the more 'flavorful' games with some detail in the writeups, such as role-reveals upon death, help drive engagement... at least for me.