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Frontman,
Nice article. You hinted at the issue of initiative, controling the game with your actions and its relationship to dice rolling. If you're taking any requests, I'd be interested in your ideas about this and its realtionship to powers that influence it, such as probability control.
Thanks, Funkecrary
"Remember what you have learned, save you it can." Best sermon ever!
Once Armor Peircing is availible poison will be a great way to deal with the big guns. No attack roll, and the damage automatically gets through. Combined with Incap to lock the big guy down so that he has to stay next to the poisoner for as long as possible it can get pretty nasty.
Joker is a WTF kind of peice, and that's how he SHOULD be!
VERY cool point about the AP / Poison combo Mister J! Is that legal, though? I haven't seen the exact wordsing of AP, so I don't know, but I got the impression that it was only for 'attacks'...
As if Exp. Cloak wasn't great enough already!
P.S. - GREAT read, Frontman! I feel like a total maroon that I relegated saying that to the 'P.S.' and didn't make that the 'subject' of my first post :P Sorry...
I look forward to future columns, and want to thank webhead817 for making HCRealms so full of great content so soon! Awesome job, guys! Your efforts are appreciated!
High Cost figures main weakness is that they make aweful use of team actions. Each turn you get 1 action per hundred points your team was originally built to. So in your most common 300 point game this means you get 3 actions per turn (Leadership not withstanding). Since most of the time it's not wise to push your figures, this means that you'll be moving each figure every other turns. Now since team actions are where you get things done, taking more of them generally means you'll be getting more things done. Most of your strong winning tournament teams use up their actions each turn. This means that in order to use up the 6 actions you get every two turns in a 300 point game your figures should average a cost of 50 points each. The figures this article are talking about are your big beefy, 150-250 to point figures. Having these figures on your team means that in a 300 point game you're not going to be having 6 figures most of the time. Hence you'll not be using up all 6 actions. Your one super cool figure will do something really neato every other turn, causing mass destruction and reaping havoc, but then the other 5 actions you get will barily get used. As the opponent of such a team, you should take advantage of this. You get 6 actions compaired to your opponent who will be only using up 3-4 of his actions, and only taking one of those actions using the "super figure". He's potentially exchanging 1 attack for your 6 attacks. Use this to your advantage. Plus tie up his "Super figure" and try to control what he can do. If you base him up with a cheap piece, this means he wastes a turn attacking that piece and is stuck there to get hammered on by you with your next 6 actions before he moves again. Even if you're not dishing out 4+ clicks of damage with your attacks, lots of little attacks will KO that figure just as well as one big beefy attack. If you base him up, AND put a PC figure in his LOS, then he's going to have a really hard time breaking away from that sacrificial lamb you threw at him, and he'll have to waste his turn attacking that figure. VS these big figures Incapacitate is pretty nice....ack, did I say that out loud? Incapacitate is generally a weak power under the official rules, but against these sort of teams that put all their eggs in one basket, it can be a very effective power. Be weary though, because I think you will find that the top tournament teams are not ones that feature one of these high cost heavy hitters, they are capable of coming at you from many directions. And agains these kinds of teams Incapacitate is nearly useless. So you may be making your team one-dimentional if you include incapacitate to deal with heavy hitters. Outwit is a totally unballanced power. It is very diverse and overly useful. Even if the Heavy hitter is immune to Outwit (fortitude), you'll find plenty of uses for it on his support pieces. Psychic Blast and Exploit weakness cut through everything. And the afforementioned Barrier is highly effective against these heavy hitters. Especially if you can get them on an indoor map. But mainly when you're facing these Big-Beef teams you've got an action advantage, exploit it, you should be at least attacking his heavy hitter twice for every one attack it makes. (Or at least that's what you should be trying to do unless you're keeping him at bay with a barrier.)
Originally posted by mr_moneypenny VERY cool point about the AP / Poison combo Mister J! Is that legal, though? I haven't seen the exact wordsing of AP, so I don't know, but I got the impression that it was only for 'attacks'...
As if Exp. Cloak wasn't great enough already!
Armor Peircing has been posted on the WK site, Penny. It says damage dealt may not be reduced below 1. That means it works with Poison. I can't wait to use the Mystic TA with Chameleon and V Cloak. Bring on Ares!
But in the case of Barrier I disagree partially. Barrier is good, but only when playing in Outdoor maps. All the actual (and the Legacy ones too) big figures are flyers with either RS or HSS (some have "only" Charge but they are not the most used because range is largely better than close combat).
They will not be stopped or even annoyed in outdoor maps (and the player using KC Green Lantern, Thor and the other will take, if he can choose the map, an indoor map if you have some figures with Barrier in our team).
And that's an important thing to keep in mind : during half the games your barriers will not really protect you from the big figures (except if your are turtling in your side of the map protected by barriers, but in this case any team, even the ones without big figures, will have some difficulties to reach you).
What's worse is that with the actual increase of damages on the figures, it's not uncommon to have a cheap figure able to break the barrier so that the big figure can continue to attack.
About the swarming of figures and repeated Incapacitate, that looks good on the paper, but in the game it's quite more difficult to do it effectively. Without any big figure on your side, the opponent will probably strike first (that's one figure out on your side). In most cases, his big figure will be relatively far from your team even after his attack (using HSS to retreat by example), and protected by either a barrier or some figures : the big figures are flyers so they can bring a shield with them (mainly a figure with Stealth), and a cheap figure can be send to cover him (cheap figure with high movement like a simple Roo Sidewinder or Vanisher). And I don't even talk about the (largely used) Trick Shot feat on Amazo and KC GL...
Placing two figures with Incapacitate in range of the big figure (and seeing it) is already not easy to do, but with the upcoming Legacy big figures and their 20-21 Defense, you will need to have high attack values (and PC) on each of your incapaciters. Seems largely too hard to be really effective.
IMO, with Legacy, the actual trend that nearly all the teams rely on a big figure will increase. The best way to deal against an Ares or a KC GL will be another big figure with about the same range and able to hit them with reasonable chances (and hit them hard !). Teams playing with medium figures (in point value) but without any big figure will have a hard time against such figures (as they have already agaisnt Amazo/Trick Shot and Ult Thor). They will play with less mobile teams, they will be systematicaly outranged, and with the Legacy figures, they will even have nearly no chances to even hit the opponent big figure.
I'm the unconditional militant for the making of Porcupine, Man-elephant and Armadillo as clix !
Quote : Originally Posted by Thawmus
Someone needs to insert some sort of barbaric whining in here soon, or else this thread might die!!!!
I apologize if this has been mentioned already, I didn't see it.
One power that is overlooked in dealing with the big figs is Plasticity. A cheap plasticity fig can tie up a much bigger fig and force the enemy to pay attention to them, allowing you some breathing room to set up your forces to move in. Especially good are figs that have an attack capable of hurting the victim, or the ability to use a mystics/crossgen TA. Zelda DuBois is a good example of the former; many players will be tempted to push to take her out, in order to avoid the BCF coming the following turn. Chameleon is a good example of the latter; he can mimic someone else's Mystics TA, and even has some BCF of his own, although with a pretty miserable attack rating.
Obviously, this strategy will not work against figs with hypersonic, phasing, or leap/climb, and is less effective against flyers than grounded, but think of the fun you will have watching your 22 point Princess Python LE making Magog sweat.
"Blowing up the moon was a plot point. Blowing up the earth was a tempter tantrum" -- Keith Giffen
Great article and a lot of useful information. Please keep 'em coming. Thanks!
Sink74, isn't "Armor Piercing" and Envoy Only sneak-peak? If I missed the public post I apologize, otherwise we should all be more careful with the info. we share.
2013 Golden Age Championship fellowship winner
2012 Midwest Spring Fling Champion
2008 National Fellowship winner - DC World Champion
To those who have given me positive feedback, my thanks. It makes it worthwhile doing this sort of thing when you get complimented. So, to all, thanks again.
Now, to a few comments that have been repeated in a few posts, so I'm grabbing one as an example:
From Funkecrary:
"Nice article. You hinted at the issue of initiative, controling the game with your actions and its relationship to dice rolling. If you're taking any requests, I'd be interested in your ideas about this and its realtionship to powers that influence it, such as probability control.
Thanks, Funkecrary"
I'm planning on doing strategy points on various powers/abilities, but just a quick thought on PC. PC is a great power, but I think it gets relied on quite a bit. PC is only a reroll of the dice. Can it cause a hit to go miss? Absolutely. But to build a strategy around something that really is just as random as the original roll is not the best way to focus on a powerhouse figure, or any figure in general. Thanks Funk.
From Darkskaven
But in the case of Barrier I disagree partially. Barrier is good, but only when playing in Outdoor maps. All the actual (and the Legacy ones too) big figures are flyers with either RS or HSS (some have "only" Charge but they are not the most used because range is largely better than close combat).
Dark, you are right. A player worth his salt with a powerhouse flyer is always going to go for an outdoor map. My suggestion of barrier is for those times you get the chance to do an indoor map. It's also a power that might not stop the powerful flyer, but the ground figure with outwit or similar line-of-site power on the other team can be stopped by a simple barrier. Plus, its just a great power that gets overlooked more often than not.
And finally, many folks have brought up:
Beating IMP/INV Without Having to Use Outwit
That is a great thread, and I highly recommend that as a read as well. I will never take away from another contributor to this site and say "Bah, my idea is better/don't bother reading that." Of course, many of those points on that list rely on luck of the dice, which is fine, but not always a success. Rolling 2 on your Blades/Fangs/Claws won't give you anything against Impervious or Invulnerability. But, combine B/F/C with PC, now you got a chance of doing a hell of a lot more damage.
Like I said in my original post, strategy is as broad of a topic as there are players of Heroclix. What works for me won't always work for someone else. Experiment, play around with new ideas, and work up your own approach to the game.
Ok, we've got a request for a mod article (my specialty), I've started another strategy article, and one on focusing on a power, namely PC. Anyone interested in giving me input on what you'd like to see, please shoot me ideas at my PM, and I'll do my best to work them in as soon as I can.
In my experiences with KC Supes and U Thor running rampant at local tournaments, I have found that knowing a "Big Hitters" dial is the most important factor in taking it down. My favorite tactic so far is using Sidewinder, Vanisher...and even...Princess Python...err.. Usually when you run into these angry giants, you're playing a 400+ point game. Potentially sacrificing 20 or 30 points is well worth it to tie-up a brick and frustrate your oppontent. Blocking LOS is also a great way to prevent a heavy blast. I love the fact that Mutant Mayhem has released an assortment of pogs capable of showing up in boosters. Again sacrificing 2-5 points carries more than meets the eye. Taunt has also saved my behind 1ce or 2ce. Some great "taunters" I've played with include: Taskmaster, Blade(MM), V-Black Widow(ULT), and even the ever-cheap R-Robin. Nothing is more satisfying than seeing KC Superman spend an action trying to pummel a character barely 1/4 his points. The most fun I've had with Taunt is using it with Johnny Alpha. Stealh plays a huge part in the effectiveness of using this card. Taunting a "heavy hitter" with the ellusive Johnny, forcing the oppontent to move adjacent to him(or attack, super senses can come into play if so), then when your turn comes back around, push Johnny Alpha to TK the bruiser into one of your monsterous pieces or out into the open to take a blast or two.
You could also bring the following BFC's to play with. Crosswinds, making all figures grounded and thus unable to soar. Darkness making all max ranges 6. Vet Dagger with the new feat cards will be a nasty , nasty figure hard to deal with . Having PB and wildcard will make her a viable and worthy figure to use, along with her "partner" Cloak. Both of whom seemed designed to work with the new feat cards coming out in Legacy.
1st off good article.im diggin frontmans werds and the things webhead is doin of late.
2nd off,this is hottness...
Stealh plays a huge part in the effectiveness of using this card. Taunting a "heavy hitter" with the ellusive Johnny, forcing the oppontent to move adjacent to him(or attack, super senses can come into play if so), then when your turn comes back around, push Johnny Alpha to TK the bruiser into one of your monsterous pieces or out into the open to take a blast or two.
posted by yoymayo.its a really good strategy and johnnys a great pick 4 it.
i beleive just about errythings been said about dealing w/this and that but i have to agree that the use of barrier is much better on an indoor map.especially if u like 2 stay in the hallways liike i do and blow hole and kill in 1 turn.les face it.thor does not like the wall and a barrier puttin the cabosh on some smackdown and kc supes is gonna have 2 move,break wall then base u.no kill this round.w/a classic "c"formation ur taxi will jus leave after supes has taken atleast a decent slap 2 the face.darthfatty 1nce said "gimme a donut"...errr wait.i mean darthfatty 1nce said its all about controlling the pacing of the game.thats all its about;slowing the speed at which ur opponent deals dmg and increasing the speed at which u deliver dmg.indoor maps r-i beleive-easier 2 gain control of.
in conjunction w/the big figs problem,i find middle ground.in 1 hand i am the notorious"hav all the big pnt guns n play them often guy".on the other hand i simply will not play the big pnt guns if it means i will get out flanked by erryone else.it was said earlier that ur number of actions is key and i agree.there r of course exceptions.4 example i 1nce pulled absolute #### in a sealed tournament and ended up w/a 2figure team which romped all but 1 person.(that person being the bastid darthfatty who pulled a vet black adam.and even that was a close match that revolved around the simple fact both our dice hate us deeply.)
the bottom line i guess is think b4 u move.it sounds silly 2 say but its the key.im sure all the peeps winnin will agree.using bait and the right timing anyone can dominate even w/my sour dice rolls.
"b like water.water can flow or it can crash..."-bruce lee