I just got back into clix after a couple of years. It was my understanding that the Wild Card TA was still in effect, even if your team member you are copying is KOed (the only difference being that you cannot get the power back if you switch).

That makes sense of the verbiage "a wildcard cannot copy another wildcard that has copied another team". (Spidey mimics Thing, Thing is KOed, Iron Fist can't get FF ability from Spidey...right?).

Only in the new errata, it seems like they're saying if Thing was KOed, Spidey would LOSE the FF ability. Do wildcards lose the ability when the donor is KOed? If so, what's the point of mentioning a wildcard can't copy a wildcard? All wildcards on a team could all copy the team ability from the same single figure, right? 3 Spidey team members could ALL mimic the Thing?

Also, is it true you could mind control an opponent and wild card your opponent's team ability?

Thanks!

As of the Danger Room rules, wildcards lose the TA they're copying if the figure they're copying it from is KOed. And the point of mentioning that wildcards can't copy TAs from other wildcards comes into play with the feat Siphon Power. SP lets a wildcard copy a "copyable" TA from an opponent's fig. However, only the figure assigned SP can copy that TA.

And yes, you CAN MC an opponent's fig and copy that TA, but only until the end of the MC action, when the opponent's fig is no longer considered to be on your team, and therefore no longer copyable by your wildcards.

Actually, when you copy a TA from an MCed opponent, you will keep that TA until you change it or the figure is KOed...even after the figure returns to its regularly scheduled owner. There is nothing in the rules saying that you retain a TA only as long as the figure is friendly.

Heck, by your logic, if I MCed your only Batman, all of your Wild Cards copying Batman would suddenly becom visible.

Yes it bloody well does say that!

From the rules:
Wild Cards
Wild card team abilities are special team abilities that allow a character to use any team ability possessed by any friendly character on the battlefield.

And yes, all your Batman Ally copiers would become visible for that one action. So it would be legit to MC Batman and then use him to attack one of your no-longer-stealthy characters.

The reason they say you cannot copy a TA from a wildcard that is using a different TA is from Power Siphon. THAT character gets to use the TA, but does not POSSESS it. That means other wildcards cannot USE it

I'm not too sure that's the correct interpretation... I think that's more for when you initially copy them, not how long you can retain it.
My reason for saying that is that I've seen many a post about this with the RA responding to it, and I believe some of those had the RA saying that you would (in this example) retain the Bat Ally TA until Batman was KOd.

Although in all fairness, I can't access the WK forums from here at work, so I can't verify that at all at this moment (I'm sure others can)

burleigh2 is correct.

The rukes say that you retain the last copied TA until:
1) It uses another team ability
or
2) The end of an action in which the character whose team ability the wc is using is ko'ed or removed from the game.

When the figure returns to an opponent's control, it has not been ko'ed or removed from the game.

I stand by my argument for two reasons

1. Definition of use and possess
The wild card does not possess the team ability, it can only use that of a friendly character. Thus it cannot use any ability that is not possessed by a team mate
Although those terms are from the new rules there is along precedent from rules questions that a wildcard never 'copies' a TA, it only uses it

2. Definition of friendly
The mind controlled character is only friendly for the duration of the single action provided

So does that mean it's pointless to have an FF team member on a wild card team?

When a member of this team is KOd, each friendly Fantastic Four team member may be healed 1 damage. This would be pointless according to the new Wild Card rules rules, right?

Thanks.

This is a timing issue

Just like Mystics, you still get zinged if you KO a mystic

You retain the TA until the end of the action, which includes the resolution

So
Actual FF gets KO'd
FF users heal 1
Action is now resolved
Wildcards are no longer using FF

Not completely pointless, no. For example, the wildcard (copying the FF TA) could be the figure KO'd, thus healing all remaining FF characters on the board.

Also, I'd have to go back and review my timing mechanics to be sure, but it is possible that the wildcard would still be considered FF at the moment of the FF character's KO (and thus granting the click of healing) and then immediately switch to not FF once the whole process is resolved. Not 100% sure about this one, though...


Also, for those of you keeping score at home, these wildcard rules are not 'new'. First, they've been this way (recently) since DC Icons (and we are now on Danger Room and soon to be LoSH). Second, the wildcard rules worked this same way, more or less, since the beginning of the game. Only for about a year, when Universe was the current rules set, did the whole 'wildcards keep the TA even after TA donor is KO'd' thing exist. If you started playing during Universe, this would of course lead you to think this is the 'old' way... but it was more like a bump in the road. And thus ends today's history lesson

Yes he is using the TA not possessing it. But this does nothing to refute what Harpua stated.

1. You declare MC on Batman
2. Spidey declares he will copy the Bat TA and use it. It is legal to use the Bat TA at this time because Batman is friendly to Spidey.
3. You roll and hit Batman with MC
4. Batman is friendly to you and opposing to Spidey.
5. You go to declare an action with Batman
6. So you effectively ask what TA is Spidey declaring?
7. You opponent responds: Spidey will continue to use the Batman TA which he is already using.
8. Thus Batman can not declare an action where he draws LoF to Spidey in stealth

So, as to my earlier point, they may USE any TA which a FRIENDLY character POSSESSES

Please explain to me which friendly figure on Spideyès team POSSESSES that TA

I just realized that your figures WOULD keep the Batman TA because you lose a borrowed TA at the end of the action that you lost access

I stand by my claim on Spidey for the same reason

Well, in the example he gave, Spiderman copied Bat Ally in step 2 (when the MC action is initially declaired), so Batman was friendly to Spiderman at that time. Spiderman retains that TA because Batman has not been KOd and is still on the map, which Harpua pointed out:


The quotes that you have used from the rulebook indicate when you are able to have a WC initially copy a TA.... the rules that Harpua cites are the ones that say when a WC can no longer copy a TA.

....BOTH of you are right, just about different parts in the timing.