So if i have a sue storm with alt ff and the thing with shellhead.


the thing is pushed, does his defense become 19 then get the +2 or does his original defence get the +2 then it is replaced by the 19

thanks for the help

Replace then modify.

Thing's defense is a 21.

ok thanks for the clarification

Worked great with E Valor and V Supergirl pushing borrowing R Fixer's MoE TA and then using Sue's 19 with their Shellheads to sit at 21. Oh, and the old E Ultron. And then I had a couple healers... in fact I think I T-bolted R Shaman to Serpent Society so my characters could leave whenever they needed to.

This was all against Foom and I wasted a lot of points on Barrier before the judge playing the Foom explained that Foom doesn't care about any walls anywhere while he's playing him... (sigh).

But the 21 can and sometimes does hold up.

I used a similar thing against Spectre.... but mine were ES/D WCs copying her 21 DV AND sitting on objects. Needless to say, that made it a LOT easier

Why does shellhead work when using ICWO on Sue doesnt? I know it is for unmodified defense, but wouldn't using shellhead just modify the thing's to a 19 anyway?

Shellhead modified your defense when you're attacked.

ICwO modifies your defense immediately.

AltFF shares your unmodified defense when you're attacked.

It's all in the timing, as Fozzie Bear would say.

Timing. Shellhead only really applies at the time of the attack, whereas ICWO happens before the replacement.

F4 ATA and JSA / Defenders only allows the sharing of the unmodified defensive value.

So perplexing Sue's defense to an 18 won't change Thing's defense who can still use her unmodified 19.

Sue can ICwO up her defense to a 20. But Thing only gets the unmodified 19.

ICwO doesn't work to boost Thing's defense because it is used on Thing's turn. He can ICwO his own defense to an 18 (17+1).

Whether he is attacked or not he has that 18 defense. When he is attacked he then uses the F4ATA which allows him to use the 19 defense on Sue which overwrites his 18 (17+1). Then Shellhead is checked. If Thing has 2 action tokens on him and has a damage reducer, he gains a +2 to defense.
19 + 2 = 21.

Hope that makes some sense...

AHHHHHHHHHHHHHH, I see now, thanks for the clear up

Thats pretty sweet, too bad whenever I play Sue the karma police kick me in the nuts with bad rolls for me and awesome rolls for everyone else.

I never see more 11's rolled against me than when I use Sue

The shellhead thing is cool though

Oooh...I had an error ruling in my favour last weekend. :disappoin

Nothing like having your first tournament win be a tainted one. Course, I don't think it actually made a difference in an attack by my opponent...but still.

That's not too fun..... of course, it's as simple as OWing the damage reducer to make Shellhead inactive, too... or pass and wait for the opponent to pass

It's not as much of a deterrant neccessarily as people think (unless they have MoE... then it's like having Shellhead on a Colossal fig, since that was the ability they copied it from).

Thanks for the great idea, I need to try this sometime.