I'm still not convinced that a player can elect to block or not block LOF in the middle of the action, but I'm going to chalk it up to frustration with the state of the game and call it a day.

The notion that I can make an attack with a Bat Ally, allow LOF for my PC characters after I see the result of the roll, and then block LOF for your PC characters breaks the TA, I think.

Am I understanding this correctly?

If I have a Clix with Stealth and PC. I can't use PC on myself unless I turn off Stealth until the start of my next turn?

Until the start of the (not your) next turn, but yes.

That is correct if their is hindering terrain in the path of LoF including the square occupied by the figure with the stealth power.

The Batman TA however has a slightly different wording. Simply choose not to use it.

Would someone please give me a definition of the term "turn" because I've heard it defined two different ways.

Does a turn consist of one player moving or is it both players moving (in a two player game)?

In relation to this thread, if I turn off stealth does my opponent then have line of sight to that character during their moves, or does the stealth come back on when I'm done moving?

Each player gets a turn.

One of each of all players' turns is a round.

I.E. In a two-player game, I take my turn, then you take your turn. Those two turns (yours and mine) together is one round.

edit: to add, a round begins with the turn of the player who went first to start the game.

edit again: the definition of 'round' matters because of the Cuckoos, who are slightly better when you go first, because their faux perplex can modify defense values until the end of the round.

Batman was already the best pull you could get in the sealed starro.

This just makes him.....better....

I can't view the thread you linked to (I'm going to guess its in the judges forum) but based on what you provided in the quote from the RA, it appears you may have clouded his point. Notice that I highlighted a little phrase "for one action" in your quote. This indicates to me that, the choice to use or not use Stealth with the Batman Ally TA would be made at the same time as the choice to use or not use every other power, feat or abiltiy is made, at the beginning of the action, and would last for the duration of that action. It would not however be done on a LoF by LoF basis.

Personally, I don't think your position is supported by what the RA is saying, (or that your position supports what the RA is saying, however you want to look at it ) but I could be wrong. Maybe you can provide a clearer quote to make your case, because as it stands, I don't think this one works.


BoT

If it helps (you can believe me or not) I originally brought this to Norm's attention when the LoSH PAC and Rulebook got spoiled. I was trying to argue the consequences of how the word "use" should work. Its an extremely complex lesson which I think I have a firm grasp of now.

The response that I quote you is primarily in response to my several questions regarding how the Batman TA should work if everything else he was telling me is true. Basically he said he would confirm it with GD.

He did. And the quote is basically away of telling me that what we had originally discussed is true. There were other comments in the thread as well which were directed at other judges questions.

I will see if I can find a few more references of the dialogue to clear up the confusion.

Here is a good thread worth reading in the general rules forum.

http://forum.wizkidsgames.com/showth...ghlight=Batman

Its about the term "use" in general and you can see at the end of the thread I ask this very question to Norm and he says he will get back to me on it.

From everything I have read it strongly implies use or not use at will. However a specific followup question was asked regarding not using stealth for Perplex (a specific action) and then using stealth during an attack (a different subsequent action) to prevent being PCed by the opponent.

Here is another general rules forum thread where Norm backs up Gumpold explaining the rule to someone else:

http://forum.wizkidsgames.com/showth...an#post1506767

I don't see any support for your position in either of those threads. There is no instance there where "use" indicates a difference of timing for the power being used than it works when it is possessed. Red Skull uses OW from Cosmic Cube, it still only works (the CC instance) once per turn, and it doesn't allow him to OW mid-action. Even the examples you cite involve different actions for the Stealth to be used or not. Neither addresses a change mid-action.

I asked Norm for a clarification on what the use of Stealth entails (without any bias what-so-ever ) so hopefully he'll clarify it, (in the simple language he knows I need to understand these things! :cross-eye ).


BoT

I think I understand the distinction clearly now thanks to the threads provided by IceHot (thanks dude! I appreciate and will play that way even if I don't agree that they should have done this. the rules are the rules I guess...), so it makes the Batman TA/Kabuki even better now and more annoying.:disappoin

My two cents:
This is just foolish though, making two sets of rules for essentially the same game effect. This does not help make the game less complex for when you are trying to get new players on board. Too much hair splitting it seems, adds tedium.
If you can get your local judge to accept this ruling fine, it will help for sure at the sealed Starro tourny, but jeez, why couldn't they just have ruled the same way for both instances of "stealthiness".
I understand the difference, fine, it's not "exactly" the same situation, one "possesses" stealth, one can "use" stealth, but seriously...

((I think this ruling is probably almost as ridiculous as a fig not being able to see itself when it is in hindering, therefore having to cancel it's own stealth in order to re-roll it own attack. I do respect that rule, but it is still a kind of aberration and could be reviewed. It might contradict the functioning of LoS if they eventually allowed it, but it would actually make sense in a way that is easily explainable. And as an exception to the LoS rules I don't see why anyone would find it unacceptible, then again who knows... I do challenge anyone to prove to me that it is necessary to keep such a rule. It's not like there haven't been some iffy rulings before, so I don't think the whole rule system for LoS would be "soiled" by this one very reasonable exception.))

The Stealth and Bat TA differences discussed in this thread, although they make sense with the strict interpretation of the rules, and can be exploited by an experienced player who wants to rule dance around his opponent, just kinda take away from the flow of the game. You know your gonna have to stop and justify yourself if someone doesn't know about this one. We already have to do it so often, why add more reasons to?

Sorry guys, had to get it off my chest! Does anyone at least agree with what i'm babbling about?

Here is ONE difference.

If you can only USE stealth, you cannot have a Feat card. Feats require you have the POWER, not use the ability.

So, for those instances, being able to USE stealth is a detriment.

Granted, I'd still take JL bats over any stealthed fig...

To put this to bed for those who are interested, this is the official response on the topic of how a Batman Ally uses Stealth, from the RA:Here is his post.


BoT