Okay say I play Veteran Psylocke with the following cards:

Stunning Blow
Knockdown
Ambush
Homing Device


Okay Normalview told me that when using Stun Blow and Homing Device together the stun Blow takes over for the -1 damage that Homing device requires.

Thinking that over I wanted to ask: Can this same process go to Stun blow and Knockdown? It says deal no damage, yet Stun Blow says don't modify the damage.

Next Question is can you choose when to use ambush? When you hit with Stun Blow (in hindering) and follow up with knockdown would you be able to use ambush with this free action to cancel out the +2 defensive bonus from the opposing character? How about using ambush in the beginning of the whole onslaught (the start of stunning blow action) and having the +2 carry over to the knockdown action-is this legal?

Lastly, if I were to use the compel feat on Psylocke would she still have that +2 attack from the ambush or is that a one action deal? (This will probably be answered by the second question upon reflection)

The difference is the second attack granted by Knockdown is not an Incapacitate attack (so it won't activate Stunning Blow). It is a second attack that happens to deal no damage and instead adds a token if it does hit.

"Once per turn, after the character resolves a successful close combat action using Incapacitate, if the target has only action token, as a free action the character can immediately make a second close combat attack against the target, which gets +2 to its defense value for the second attack. If the attack succeeds, deal no damage; instead, give the target a second action token. If the character loses Incapacitate before making the second attack, it may not make the second attack."

See, there is no mention of Incap in the description of that second attack. You can certainly use Stunning Blow on the first attack, but the second one has its own special rules (per the Knockdown description).

FYI, this has been discussed many times alread and a search for 'stunning blow knockdown' would turn up the relevant threads.

Since Ambush does not use the word 'may' in the description, it is assumed to be on (and used) unless you actually choose not to use it before the action begins (per the feat rules, page 39 LoSH). So, if you want to use Ambush in this instance, you'd have to use it for the first attack (and it wouldn't be available for the second, since the Stealth is lost at the resolution of this first attack and the character doesn't meet the prerequisites during the second attack). If you choose not to use it in the first attack, since the second attack is still part of the same action, Ambush is 'off' and also not available.

She would not be able to use it for two reasons. First, as pointed out above, Stealth would be countered and she wouldn't meet the prerequisites. Second, even if Stealth were somehow regained (don't ask me how) you can't use any feats assigned to a character when it is MC'd (which includes Compelling friendlies) per the HC general E&C document.

Aren't all of a MC'd character's powers back when they become MC'd, even if they had been countered? You still couldn't use the feats, but I thought I'd try and answer how Stealth could be turned back on...

Nope. You're thinking of powers that have been cancelled (turned off by the user). Countered is in the same domain as Outwit (and up until Ambush came out, Outwitting a power was the only way it could be countered).

Right now, the only way Ambush's countering of Stealth wouldn't happen is if a PC/Quint character had Stealth and used Ambush (since PC/Quint character can not have their powers countered).

And if that character did not choose to cancel its team ability to use the feat.

Actually, I recall this situation being covered a while back (shortly after Knockdown and Ambush were both legal) and based on the timing for cancelling feats and powers, the result is that you can choose which attack to use the Ambush on, or not to use it at all, but that choice must be made at the beginning of the action.

As normalview said, if it is used for the first attack, Stealth is countered and the prerequisites can't be met to use it on the second attack. However, if Ambush is cancelled for the initial attack, because the Knockdown attack occurs after the action is resolved, when feats are again active, Ambush would be in effect. Since feats and powers can only be cancelled at the beginning of an action and Knockdown is not an action in or about itself, there is no opportunity to cancel Ambush or Stealth for that attack, so if both those are active, the +2 for Ambush must be applied for the second attack. (There is no optional phrase in Ambush so if the feat is active it must be used).

To not use Ambush at all, Stealth must be cancelled before the first attack. This is because it will remain cancelled until the end of your turn, unlike a feat, and Psylocke wouldn't meet the prerequisites for the feat for either attack. Of course, that exposes Psylocke to opposing PC...


BoT

Yeah, I had a brain fart and read 'action' as 'attack'. Silly me

Not entirely true. The player could simply opt not to use the feat per the normal feat rules (page 39 of LoSH) at the start of each action (the first Incap action and the second, follow-up free action attack).

They could choose to cancel Stealth to make themselves open to their own PC, if they wanted.

I guess that makes two of us then.


BoT