It was like 1994.

Yeah, I just assume ignore it along with some of the other mush that violates the cosmic order in today's comics. In prior lists I've placed Beyonder below LT only...and the Shaper pretty much dismantled entire galaxies.

I think MM is more likely explained as people who sold their souls to him are now being called on for collection :-)

You'd just have to point cost him at a non-even cost....a 1000 point guy with MM is kinda useless, but if he costs at 850, 1150 and 1450.....

They did do something with that cosmic cube, it was either in a special multi small stories book or a back story in silver surfer books not sure.


But the cube evolved into a female humanoid form and Kubik started to teach her, her place in the cosmic scheme of things, at the end to go to explore the universe.

that was a long time ago maybe early to mid 90's



Just got a flash could have been in a Quasar issue as a back story.

yeah, I remember that issue, I think it was a back up story in a Silver surfer annual. The thing about the beyonder ranking though is in Secret Wars 2 the Beyonder's manipulation of the marvel Universe was all supposed to be an illusion.

However in Secret Wars 1 he clearly beats Glactus on his own. Is this an illusion too? If not, maybe the beyonder couldn't take out all of the cosmic beings in the Marvel U at once, but could hold his own against them one on one.

OK! Well, after reading through all that, I will say I like the second dial.

As to the power level of the aforementioned characters, I think the level is so high on them that it is hard to measure. Planning, strategy, and location will help or hinder many of these characters. Rarely is Mephisto shown is actual combat (except with Silver Surfer from the 60's, whose purity hurt as much as his blasts...) Dormammu is stronger when ruling his dimension, Nightmare is nearly unstoppable in his dimension, but nearly powerless in the norm. As Odin nears the time of Odin-sleep, he is weaker than when he first wakens. Is Galactus hungry? Is the Phoenix-force hungry?When you get that high, its just too close to call matter-of-factly.

quoted from Jay Thor
I really like that word!

And yes you make a great point JT. Still, they made 3 dials for Galactus and for Dark Pheonix. There's no reason why they can't do the same for "smaller" figs. Mech Warrior and Mage knight have some figs that have two dials ( unless I'm mistaken). The same can be done. ANd so as the game evolves (ughhh! I hate this word), so will the dials and combat system. At least I hope!

The multiple dials is to show the various power levels that the characters (Big G and DP) were at different times. Mephisto and most of the others named have been consistent in power levels (ignoring one-shots where the writer didn't really know the characters, henceforth called Bendis-izing), and warrant a single (albiet powerful) dial. I could even see a Sentinel sized dial, except it wouldn't go over well to have to promote a Satanic character.

Some modifications and explanations

Celestials should go above both Galactus and Ego. Celestials have shown time and time again, especially in old Thor comics that they are in another league. The only time Galactus was more powerful was in a FF comic set in the future that had him devouring the whole universe. And even that was set up by a Celestial(a sleeping one at that) that physically manipulated Galactus in to having that level of hunger. Ego should drop below Galactus. Everytime Ego went up against Galactus he was summarily dismissed. He put up a decent fight, but that was it.

Completed Cosmic Cubes(Kubik, Shaper of Worlds and Kosmos) should go above Phoenix. Incomplete Cubes (Molecule Man and Beyonder)should go below. Reason being is that at full power Phoenix would have been able to kill Beyonder or Owen Reese, but not been able to do the same to Kubik.

Infinity and Oblivion should be equal to Death and Eternity, they all exist on the same plane.

Order and Chaos should occupy a spot just ahead of Galactus, as they created Galactus' opposite, the Inbetweener.
The Inbetweener obviously would move up to the same slot as Galactus

Love and Hate, may just be at or slightly ahead of the Skyfathers.

Mephisto would be either just equal to or slightly below the Skyfathers

Dormammu would vary widely depending on the amount of worship he received.

So, I think it would look more like this

1. The Living Tribunal
2. Death, Eternity, Infinity, Oblivion
3. The Celestials, Chaos, Order, Dormammu (/w universal worship)
4. Galactus, Inbetweener
5. Shaper of Worlds, Kubik, Kosmos
6. Phoenix
7. Molecule Man Beyonder
8. Ego the Living Planet
9. Odin, Zeus, Surtur etc., Mephisto(in home dimension)
10. Hate, Love, Mephisto (normal)
11. The High Evolutionary, Thanos
12. Set, Hela, Nightmare, Dormmamu (normal)
13. Thor, Silver Surfer, Gladiator
14. Adam Warlock, Apocalypse, Magneto, Kang, Ultron, Dr. Doom, Firelord, Dr. Strange, Hulk, Captain Marvel etc.

Sorry I couldn't resist. LOL! I mean he did kill Eternity after all.



As for the debate at hand, Meph is more powerful than Dorm.

Not sure if this has been mentioned but when you take Dorm out of his realm he aint so hot. Meph loses some thunder as well but he can still take Dorm.


You know I have never seen Meph get pissed off! Now that would be a site!

Great dial Manchine.

Its been a while since this was up but this is the full power of Mephisto. (This is of course before Special Powers and Giants).

Here would be the new one with Special Powers and Giant Power.

U Mephisto
Team: Mystic
Range: 12
Points: 321
Keywords: Deity, Mystical

14 13 20 3

13 13 19 3

12 13 18 3

8 12 20 5

8 12 19 5

8 12 18 5

8 11 17 5

8 11 17 4

12 11 18 3

13 10 19 3

14 10 20 3

KO KO KO KO

Speed - Lord of the Underworld: Mephisto may use phasing and stealth.
Attack - Reaper of Souls: Mephisto may use Psychic Blast, Mind Control or Incapacitate.
Defense - Dark Power: Mephisto is a Giant and has Impervious.
Damage - Master Manipulator: Any Character within 10 spaces with line of fire to Mephisto may use probability control. When using any probability control on the board roll a six sided dye on a result of a 1-4 use probability control regularly on a result of a 5 or 6 the character who was rerolling the dice takes one unavoidable damage..