I'm not saying I hate the self Perplex SP, I'm saying I think its overdone and that I hate that its overdone. Way too many people have it and from an originality standpoint, its gotten way past old. Can they really not think of any other more original SPs to give people?

It honestly seems that one way or another the fans are complaining about something. Whether its "this figure is too good" or "this feat is overcosted", they can't make everybody happy. They're here to make a game that is as balanced as it can possibly be. Do the fans' opinions matter? Of course. But they can't please everybody. No matter what happens, there will be people "howling" for reason or another: its unavoidable. The best they can do is try to please the majority.

Honestly, ATAs are completely screwed, it seems. If you have them require only a keyword, people will complain because of the reliance on keywords and that its either too abusable or restricting. At the same time, if you have them require any TA plus the keyword, people will complain that certain figures are left out. For example, if you require that the FF ATA requires any TA plus the FF keyword, figures like Ghost Rider can't get any benefit, which results in people kvetching about how its not right. Conversely, if you have the FF ATA only requiring keyword, you'll see Vet Lockjaw with a 19 defense thanks to Sue Storm, which will cause people to whine about how "unfair" it is.

As you stated, Thunderbolts isn't the best example since its a fixed cost. But as it is, having it require only the Avengers TA was a very foolish move, as it enabled some of the major abuses back in the day. Having it require, say, both the Thunderbolts keyword and the Avengers TA sounds like it might not be a bad idea. But with the way ATAs are, they're either pretty much useless (see the LoSH ATA) or so free that they become abused (yes I know there are exceptions). I'm sure a middle ground can be reached, but as of now it seems very polarized.

As I said before, it really does differ in every situation depending on what the ATA is and what TA/keyword it works for. In some cases, it may be alright to ease up on restrictions for it, but in other cases, they need to be tightened.

Why should Ghost Rider benefit from a TA he didn't pay for?

-J

My point exactly. Same goes for Nova, who also has the FF keyword. I'm highlighting that that is one of the flaws with it being keyword only requirements for ATAs. However, if you make it keyword as well as TA, people will complain its too restricting. If you make it requiring any TA plus keyword, you'll get Luke Cage becoming way more useful than his points dictate.

No matter what, there doesn't seem to be a balanced solution.

WK has TA1. A figure with TA1 pays a cost for that TA.

WK creates TA2. They determine that TA2 has equal value to TA1.

Since TA2 = TA1, then a figure with TA1 could take TA2 instead without affecting its point value.

(Now for ATAs with a bonus cost (Thunderbolts, Squadron Supreme) it's not quite so simple, but that's a complaint leveled against all Feats.)

-J

I agree, but it really seems like this ability is too cheap for its effectiveness in HeroClix. Stealthed rangers have too much "board control" without proportionate cost. To put it another way, there's no trade off to sniping out of stealth. That's poor game design. We shouldn't have to rely on a specific BFC to deal with this aspect of the meta-game.

How about if Stealthed characters don't want to loose Stealth, they can take a -2 penalty to the attack roll?

Make "ATAs" into Traits printed on the card for the character. This is the best way going forward, in my opinion.

DO NOT REPRINT ICWO.

I'm in favor of *anything* that nerfs Stealth. Stealth is too good for such an inexpensive power. And it's everywhere now, thanks to Arkham Asylum. And the number of anti-Stealth options are lower than ever.

I like Trick Shot a lot. I would even be okay if it was weakened a bit, losing the ability to shoot through other characters, as long as it retains the anti-stealth ability.

Bright Lights is a necessity.

I also don't have a problem with Armor Piercing and I see it as almost being necessary if you want people to play with those low damage HSS characters which are too expensive to risk not being a threat to a tentpole. Yes, there's always Perplex (and ICWO) and Outwit, but with Fortitude (or Power Cosmic/Quintessence), Outwit's unreliable. When I'm playing a tentpole, I'd rather see a character with Armor Piercing than see a character picking up a meteorite.

I'd like to see The Society reprinted for the Injustice League TA.

I kinda agree with you. SP should be just that...SPECIAL.

I think that they should be assigned to characters who have abilities which cannot be captured within the scope of the powers and TA currently available. Spider-Man, Superman, Iron Man are characters who immediatley come to mimnd with this.

Not every stinking figure, or 60-80% of sets should have them.

Other than that, I am all for the reprint of reprints of several of the FC mentioned here. ICWO should come with the prerequisite of either the Bat Ally TA or the Gotham City Keyword AND requiring Orcale to be on a team.