Okay, we've been having this debate at my venue the past couple of weeks. It seems clear cut to me, but I'm being overruled by the group.

The group's consensus is that you can use Perplex to boost a shared defense. They'll declare, say, Fantastic Four ATA and give everyone an 18 defense, then use Mr. Fantastic to boost that two more. Likewise, you can perplex down someone who is covered by defend. Replace and modify. I see how they've come to the conclusion.

But as far as I can tell, the wording on Defend (and the FF ATA was updated to match), per the FF PAC - and I don't see any errata on it - is thus:

Emphasis mine. They're following the assumption that the replacement value is simply always there, regardless of whether the character is being attacked. But as far as I can tell, you don't actually replace the defense until the character is attacked, and that would replace any perplexed defense you might have. Then you'd modify with energy shield/deflection or whatever. (I'm assuming that you could, if you want, choose not to replace and go with the perplexed defense instead, but that's not really relevant.)

Am I wrong? Or crazy?*

*Agreement does not necessarily endorse sanity.

You are correct. Defend will trump Perplex, but it will not trump ES/D or Combat Reflexes.

You are correct. Unfortunately I don't have time to dig up the documentation on it, but I'm sure someone will in a second.

Tarnish

For reference, FF rules page 6:

Modifiers and replacement values that take effect during an action are in effect only for the duration of that action unless stated otherwise. Modifiers and replacement values that take effect during an attack are in effect only for the duration of that attack unless stated otherwise. When a value would be both replaced and modified, replace the value and then modify it.

Since Defend specifies that it kicks in before an attack roll (and attack rolls can only happen during some kind of action), Defend only lasts for the duration of whatever action triggered that attack.

As an example of what "unless stated otherwise" might be, just look at Perplex. That is a modifer that does occur during an action (the free action you give the character to activate Perplex in the first place), but due to the wording of Perplex it lasts beyond that free action (into the next turn, in fact).

Aha! I knew there was a piece I was missing!

Now I'll get to look like a jerk beating a dead horse and bringing something up for the third or fourth time.

OK so to clarify do the rules support the fact that when using defend and being perplexed, the new defense is the replacement value plus the perplex value?

No.

The Perplex modification happens prior to the Defend replacement since Defend is only triggered by an attack (and that attack's associated action) and Perplex can't actually be used while attacking (using Perplex is its own separate action).


As such, whatever the old, modified DV was, it is now completely replaced by the new Defend DV.

If the modifier were to come from another source, though, a source that activates at the same time as Defend, then modification of the new DV would be possible. Examples would be ES/D, Combat Reflexes, hindering terrain modifier, etc. None of those modifiers actually kick in until the target is attacked (much like Defend).

To back up what everyone else is saying here are 2 different examples and sequences of how replacement values and modifiers interact.

Perplex
1) The DV of Character A is perplexed up (or down)
2) An attack is declared against figure A by Figure X
3) Figure A replaces its defense value with that of figure B (This replacements overwrites the modified DV)
4) The attack roll is compared against the DV provided by B.

ESD/CR or any other modifier that is triggered by an attack against Figure A
1) 2) An attack is declared against figure A by Figure X
2) Figure A replaces its defense value with that of figure B (This replacements overwrites the prnted DV)
3) The modifier triggered by the attack is applied (Because the modifier and replacement happen simultaneously in this case, the rule of "replace the modify" applies)
4) The attack roll is compared against the DV from Figure B plus the modifier (i.e., ESD or CR)

ok got it!

So following that logic: If I perplex up Sue Storm's 19 DV to a 21 with Reed's +2 perplex she then can share it with the rest of the team with the Fantastic Four Alternate Team ABility. This allows Reed with a brillant tactician card to perplex everyone else up for damage , attack, etc.

The FF ATA says:
Any member of this team may replace its Defense value with the defense value of any other member.

Note: no reference to unmodified is made on the ATA.

So for Fantastic Four it actually better for it to work this way.

Nope, sorry. Check the player's guide:


FANTASTIC FOUR†
• Replace the last line with: “Any member of this team may replace its defense value with the unmodified defense value of any other member before any attack roll.”

Just to illustrate using some actual numbers and figures:

Doctor Doom is facing off against the Starter FF equipped with the ATA.

Doom's attack is 11. On the FFs turn, Reed decides to perplex all of the FF's defenses up by 2. That gives himself, Johnny, and Sue 19 defense, with Thing at a 20.

On his turn, Doom looks over his targets. Sue and Reed have 19s. Johnny actually has a 20 thanks to his Energy Shield/Deflection (the rule of 3 limiting it from 21), and Thing has 20.

Doom chooses to target the Human Torch, just to show off.

At this point, Thing's unmodified 18 would kick in via the team ability and replace Torch's defense value with 18. Torch would then gain his Energy Shield/Deflection modification, boosting him back up to a 20.

Doom scoffs, then rolls a 5. He uses a free action to curse the meddling Richards.

See, the trick I like is when the opponent tries to get you by Perplexing down your defense.

I'm playing the starter F4, except I'm using Fantastic Forces Sue (LE - 19 base defense).

flakbait really wants to get Sue, because her sharing that 19 defense to everyone is getting really old.

He uses three Perplexes to drop her down to 16.

He targets her with an attack.

At this point, Reed borrows her unmodified 19 defense, so now his unmodified defense is 19.
Now Sue copies that unmodified 19 back onto herself, bringing her from the Perplexed 16 back up to 19.

Evil. Just evil. That's why FB and poison are so very important!!

To be fair, Sue has a +10 defense against flakbait's advances anyway.