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possess: To directly have a power, ability, or effect printed on a card or dial—not simply used via another power, ability, or effect.
seems strait forward what possess means from the FF rule book, may just be me though. Most people don't read Glossary's so that is their fault for not understanding.
Let's not forget that use is defined as well:
use: To employ a power, ability, or effect.
And if you were to replace "use" in the clarification part of "possess" then you'd have:
possess: To directly have a power, ability, or effect printed on a card or dial—not simply to employ a power, ability, or effect via another power, ability or effect.
Quote : Originally Posted by krusticlese
FF Rulebook:
"Traits cannot be countered"
Rules Lawyer:
Except when it says 'possess a power' vs. 'can use a power'
You see why it's confusing to people? especially when the rulebook doesn't go int the tiny nuances of 'possess' vs 'uses'.
And really, do we need that level of detail in special powers? The only thing that using that language does is create loopholes and exceptions to the rule.
I'll be going by the actual rulebook and ruling that traits cannot be countered. Period. Batman and GA have the sharpshooter ability through a trait? Non-outwittable. I.e. cannot be countered.
Quote : Originally Posted by Gentlegamer
krusticlese is right.
Except that he's not right. The rule book does define the terms and uses each one throughout the rule book in its correct form several times. Batman and Green Arrow's trait cannot be countered. It will always be there no matter what and there's nothing at this point in the game that can remove it. When countering the Sharpshooter ability, you are not countering the trait. You are countering an ability possessed by Batman and Green Arrow. If the trait said, "Batman and Green Arrow possess the Sharpshooter ability and can use Incapacitate", you could counter the Sharpshooter ability, but there's is nothing you could do to counter the Incapacitate.
Those who read the rule book from cover and cover and really try to understand the rules while reading and while playing accept it. The rules are laid out, that's the way they work and there aren't any special loopholes or exceptions being made because of it. The argument of, "But traits can't be countered" comes from people who refuse to understand and accept the rules. If those people spent as much time reading and understanding the rules as they do complaining about them then they'd never have a reason to complain about them.
krusticlese, if you're going by the actual rule book then you'll rule that the Sharpshooter ability possessed by Batman and Green Arrow can be countered. If you don't rule it that way then you're not going by the rule book. If you're not going by the rule book then you're cheating and I would encourage every player to not play with you or in any game in which you're the judge. Making up your own rules because you don't understand or don't want to accept the rules is no way to play a game. You're screwing your players out of viable actions and giving other players an unjust advantage.
I'd love to see some of these people pick up a book of laws and actually read it rather than the summarized version that they know.
Actually the U.S. legal system works a bit differently than the rules for this game do.
Plus the wording for traits is terrible. I take the ruling on it for what it is but it doesn't make sense at all. A court of law would most likely throw that ruling out.
Actually the U.S. legal system works a bit differently than the rules for this game do.
Plus the wording for traits is terrible. I take the ruling on it for what it is but it doesn't make sense at all. A court of law would most likely throw that ruling out.
we could just put out there to determine when its a leap year method.
How to determine whether a year is a leap year
To determine whether a year is a leap year, follow these steps:
1. If the year is evenly divisible by 4, go to step 2. Otherwise, go to step 5.
2. If the year is evenly divisible by 100, go to step 3. Otherwise, go to step 4.
3. If the year is evenly divisible by 400, go to step 4. Otherwise, go to step 5.
4. The year is a leap year (it has 366 days).
5. The year is not a leap year (it has 365 days).
we could just put out there to determine when its a leap year method.
How to determine whether a year is a leap year
To determine whether a year is a leap year, follow these steps:
1. If the year is evenly divisible by 4, go to step 2. Otherwise, go to step 5.
2. If the year is evenly divisible by 100, go to step 3. Otherwise, go to step 4.
3. If the year is evenly divisible by 400, go to step 4. Otherwise, go to step 5.
4. The year is a leap year (it has 366 days). {END}
5. The year is not a leap year (it has 365 days).
The argument of, "But traits can't be countered" comes from people who refuse to understand and accept the rules.
You mean like this one from page 19 of the Fantastic Four starter Set rulebook?
Quote
TRAITS
Traits are abilities, powers, effects, or other aspects of a character that it
possesses at all times, regardless of how its combat dial is turned during
a game. Traits are indicated by the symbol in the circle next to the
name and/or description of the trait on a character card.
All traits are non-optional and can’t be countered.
So what part of "can't be countered" in that are the people who argue that Traits can't be countered refusing to understand or accept?
You mean like this one from page 19 of the Fantastic Four starter Set rulebook?
So what part of "can't be countered" in that are the people who argue that Traits can't be countered refusing to understand or accept?
the fact that the TRAIT IS NOT BEING COUNTERED.
The power that the character possess is being countered.
There were no complaints when people were outwitting ICWO perplex or Force Field's toughness.
Feats can not be countered.
The powers that they posses can be countered.
You mean like this one from page 19 of the Fantastic Four starter Set rulebook?
So what part of "can't be countered" in that are the people who argue that Traits can't be countered refusing to understand or accept?
I feel like I'm having the same conversation in two threads. It's like having a cell phone on each ear, "No, if you do that then...", "I'm not talking to you, I'm talking him...", "No, I am talking to YOU, but I was just talking to him just now..."
Powers and abilities that are possessed by a character can be individually countered. If Exploit Weakness is possessed by a character by any means, (such as, but not limited to, appearing on the dial as a lime square on the damage slot), it can be countered.
Powers and abilities that can be used by a character cannot be individually countered. If Exploit Weakness can be used by a character through another power or ability (such as, but not limited to, Black Adam's Power of Aton that allows usage of Exploit Weakness and Flurry), it cannot be countered. The power granting usage of the Exploit Weakness (Power of Aton, for example) would have to be countered to prevent usage of Exploit Weakness.
Traits can't be countered. Traits are groupings of effects. It's like a jigsaw puzzle, but some of the pieces are glued to the table and others aren't. Any effect that can be used is glued to the table. Any effect that is possessed is not glued to the table. Since it's not glued, it can be removed and put back in place at any time. Regardless of the pieces you take away or put in place, the puzzle is still a puzzle. The puzzle still exists. Nothing is causing the puzzle to be regarded as if it doesn't exist. Regardless of the possessed powers or abilities granted through the trait that get countered, the trait is still a trait. The trait still exists. Nothing is causing the trait to be regarded as if it doesn't exist.
The part people are refusing to accept (more so than understand) is that regardless of what pieces are in place and what pieces aren't, the puzzle is still a puzzle.
So what part of "can't be countered" in that are the people who argue that Traits can't be countered refusing to understand or accept?
Quote : Originally Posted by Maraud
the fact that the TRAIT IS NOT BEING
COUNTERED.
Missed the context in all the foofarah - at first glance it looked like adamkomar was arguing that Traits could be countered. Should have read more closely rather than skimming.
Oh, wait, in the spirit of your reply let me make that "SHOULD HAVE READ MORE CLOSELY RATHER THAN SKIMMING" instead. Now we've all gotten to yell at each other; isn't life so much better?