You are currently viewing HCRealms.com, The Premier HeroClix Community, as a Guest. If you would like to participate in the community, please Register to join the discussion!
If you are having problems registering to an account, feel free to Contact Us.
I'm posting this out here because I've been working on this idea and I've reached a semi dead end. Here is the theory. I believe that what was once achieveable with classic Black Adam and KC Flash teams is still achievable in the Modern Age. It might seem a bit far fetched. But the potential is there. Here are the primary requirements that the figure has to be able to do.
1.Has to be withing 100-225 points.
2.Has to be able to deliver 3+ damage in an attack.
3.Has to have at least a starting click of 10 attack value or higher.
4.By some means is able to deal with stealth.
5.Must be easy to heal.
I had a requirement of having at least one support power on the dial but then I recognized that was more of a perk then a requirement. There are a few figures that I felt meet this requirement. I am going to give you my list but I am open to ideas.
Ms Marvel skrull and avengers
Ult Iron Man
Dr. Strange
zoom
Deathstroke
Captain Marvel Jr.
Super Skrull Avengers
Lex Luthor
Batman/Catwoman duo
Now the most questionable on the list are Avengers Ms. Marvel, Lex Luthor and Deathstroke. Lex and Deathstroke can easily be pared up with Ult Quicksilver allowing them to outwit and snipe from stealth on their starting clix. They both deal out decent damage. Avengers Ms. Marvel can get her damage up pretty high and she starts with HSS.
One thing I quickly realized is that damage reducers didn't matter that much since I was going to have a healer on the team. I also figured that defensive values that was not paired with stealth didn't matter much due to the fact that every major competitive team would be packing outwit. The essential thing is to make sure the medic is in a safe place that you can also run to.
Now some may say that this theory would suffer from a support overload. Fitting the typical STOPP components in the team would be impossible. With the advent of special powers the answer to that is really no. In most mock teams I've created I've only been down 1 of the parts of the acronym at worst. In one case I had double outwit.
With all that being said do you all as a community feel that this idea should be pursued and fleshed out. The last thing I want to see is a new K.C. Flash type piece show up. At the same time if something strong is created I feel that theme teams will become more needed so that map advantage will become more of a primary thought.
Thanks for reading and I look forward to the responses.
Sentry from secret invasion. he has probability control and if you add scarlet witch getting HS is easy. back him up with the chief and he can use willpower too. and chief heals and outwits
Crisis Spectre is just above the point line by a bit, but does an amazing job at all of this (with the slight exception of being healed unless you're using Dr. Mid-Nite, but he does bring both Steal Energy and Regen), and makes for excellent team builds in Golden Age.
Lacking easy healing but filling everything else out is Crisis Darkseid- the ability to outright deal Penetrating damage, as well as built in support powers, and a mix of the best defensive abilities, coupled with his 12 range, make for excellent tentpole-ism. Deadly in any point build he can fit in.
Good list already, somewhat hard to build on... Hmm... at 140, the Captain Marvel (SHAZAM!) & Black Adam duo fits nicely on either side, better for the Captain Marvel for the PC (IMO). Captain Marvel Jr. does a decent job due to also combining HSS with SS, but Ms. Skrull-vell does a much better job by adding stealth+OW. CMJr doesnt bring much out besides outright beating, however.
Funny enough, despite the bad talk, Black Flash fits this role nicely, but needs suport to deal the 3 damage. Pushable, Mobile, able to deal damage without rolling, unoutwittable, and Regen/SE coupled also makes him 150 points of hard to hit, easy to pick your target goodness- just have to have a way to get through the enemy's tentpole is the big downside (but if your opponent doesnt have one, the fight gets much, much easier)
SR HoT Ultron makes for fantastic Tentpole-ism due to great AV and Pulse Wave, as well as a mixture of powers down the dial, and being able to theme team with M-11 is just... well, just beautiful, in a shiny, Isaac Asimov reminiscent way.
And with being about to outwit twice, carry 12 people, Move & Attack at 10 with a 10 (with a little help from perplex or outsider), Lex Luthor & Brainiac also make taking a look at worthwhile.
hope the extra advice helps!
I miss? PC it. You hit? PC it. I hit? I can do better, PC anyways. You miss? I DIDN'T SEE SNAKE EYES, PC IT!
The only reason that I didn't consider Black Adam/Shazam duo is unlike Batman/Catwoman they don't have survivability on aproach since they can't be tk'd. Now that can be mitigated a little bit if they carry a stealth shield. This forces your stealth shield to be a support figure.
One reason I liked Batman/Catwoman is that its the only figure that shuts down SIF without risk or a piece sacrifice.
Darkseid is an iffy piece with me because while he has a 12 range but to hit stealth figures he has a 6 range. Close range maps against hss figures messes him up to much. He also needs mm fodder. He needs less support elements but man its hard to fit in missing pieces. I also think he is one of the biggest victims of Sif.
well theres always a downside to every fig, all have the potential to be great, or get shot down, like any other.
Ms Marvel skrull and avengers- well... there is a reason shes so wonderful. But lack of impervious, when she takes a hit, she takes it hard.
Ult Iron Man- After that first click, he goes downhill fast, making him virtually unpushable, and vulnerable to failing impervious/damage bypassing reducers
Dr. Strange- his SP is great, but he still can't shoot out if based. Sacrificial pieces come right up and distract the whole army trying to recover while you get shot at.
zoom- much like Ms Skrull-vell, any hit crumples him. at least he has the dodgeiness, but she has the reduction.
Deathstroke- he goes down fast where he's supposed to be at his best. i've seen him get mauled by the very support pieces he was supposed to easily murder.
Captain Marvel Jr.- again, front loaded and vulnerable after damage.
Super Skrull Avengers- Powers... all in... wrong... places.... Can't... stop... talking like... Shatner!
Lex Luthor- Do you push to get the DV and lose stealth? Or do you risk the SS roll vs chargers? either way, he is hard to actually hit with once he takes a clunking.
Batman/Catwoman duo- very nice, but once they're overextended away from the rest of their army, easily ganged up on. Double Pounce is still so very nice, but there's always a downside. They also can't be TK'd... which leads me to my next point-
BA&SH at least can move away once they strike- stealth figure or not, use terrain to your advantage. HSS doesnt mean you just have to get out that far, it gives you the option to get away. And having that great 18 defense with PC and Imp makes for excellent protection so long as you play it right (just like any figure). On the flip side, if you push Black Adam's side right away, you also have a way to penetrate Imp's with HSS at the same time- without meteorite no less.
As for Darkseid- i've never used his Mastermind. not once. his willpower, a couple of times, but otherwise, choosing your targets wisely lets you keep him at his top dial, giving you insane amounts of options. Honestly, i can't remember the last time i wasnt just pushing him into his willpower anyways, or the few times he took damage, the opponent's entire army went for him all at once (and he still took some down). And yes, he only has 6 range for anti-stealth, but that also ignores all figures in the way, and if you use his own perplex, that makes it a 7 stealth-busting range. He's no Iron Man with 10 and running shot, but how many Tentpoles get to do even that much, let alone bring everything else with them to the table.
And Sif really, really isnt all she's cracked up to be. She is good, yes. Quite, especially for her points. But there's no reason your tentpole should be afraid of her. remember rules 1 and 2- Have fun, and shoot things!
I miss? PC it. You hit? PC it. I hit? I can do better, PC anyways. You miss? I DIDN'T SEE SNAKE EYES, PC IT!
Hammer of Thor messed up my use of SIF. I mean it as structual interegity field not the figure.
The point of the figures I selected is for them to hit once or twice take the lumps and run back to be healed up. This is what Black Adam of the past did. That's the tone I'm taking this. It's not a good idea for the pieces to over extend. Tentpoles have to watch that more then other teams. Running back to heal is essential to these teams. That is why low DV is actually a requirement.
Hammer of Thor messed up my use of SIF. I mean it as structual interegity field not the figure.
The point of the figures I selected is for them to hit once or twice take the lumps and run back to be healed up. This is what Black Adam of the past did. That's the tone I'm taking this. It's not a good idea for the pieces to over extend. Tentpoles have to watch that more then other teams. Running back to heal is essential to these teams. That is why low DV is actually a requirement.
OOOOHHH... S.I.F. .. ahaha.. i wondered why it was the only one in caps >< i feel's silly now. Yeah, i never had to actually contend against that, and thanks to Modern Age, i wont have to, most likely. thanks for clueing me in ^^.
And with that info in mind,, yes, you've picked out a very nice lineup. I'm just more used to staying sturdy and not having to heal, while losing the smaller figures so the big guy keeps hitting hardest. works for me, but not everyone. im looking forward to seeing your support list ^^
I miss? PC it. You hit? PC it. I hit? I can do better, PC anyways. You miss? I DIDN'T SEE SNAKE EYES, PC IT!
I don't see exactly why they HAVE to be able to deal with stealth... anyone able to base said stealth is able to deal with it... but...
Star Sapphire Wonder Woman. Blackest Night Green Lantern. Superman and Flash
"A" is "A". And no matter what universe he's from, Luthor... is Luthor.
I don't see exactly why they HAVE to be able to deal with stealth... anyone able to base said stealth is able to deal with it... but...
Star Sapphire Wonder Woman. Blackest Night Green Lantern. Superman and Flash
Probably because he's used to it being a problem- if your support figures all get taken out, if ranged stealthers can eliminate your tentpole before he can get any of them, its game over!
I miss? PC it. You hit? PC it. I hit? I can do better, PC anyways. You miss? I DIDN'T SEE SNAKE EYES, PC IT!
I don't see exactly why they HAVE to be able to deal with stealth... anyone able to base said stealth is able to deal with it... but...
Star Sapphire Wonder Woman. Blackest Night Green Lantern. Superman and Flash
Try basing Sinestro Batman + Edward Nigma. Good luck basing them, especially if basing them is your only way of dealing them damage.
Pair the first two with some Lightspeeds for cheap taxis and give Val over to the Chief for some nasty Transporter attacks, thanks to Outsiders.
The more I test Valkyrie, the less I become impressed with her. Her first 3 clicks are pure awesome, but the rest of her dial is defensively irritating, all her clicks from Impervious and onward only make her annoying and hard to take out quickly.
I am becoming more and more impressed with Bats/Cats and Black Flash.
Bats/Cats can remove lanterns and net an automatic 5 points, putting the opponent on defense IMMEDIATELY.
I haven't found a good team with Black Flash, but there is potential, the only problem is that I think that when a REALLY good team with Black Flash comes around, it'll probably be a ridiculously tough to run finesse team.
I like War Machine. War Machine forces me to play Clark Kent as anti-stealth support figure.
Let me eloberate why anti-stealth is essential. First off most outwit is paired with stealth. In the modern age outwit pieces must be the first taken out. If not your are in for a rough game. Second is that Skrull Ms. Marvel changed the game of stealth by having indomible and damage reduction. I saw a game this past week where the guy lost everything but Skrull Ms. Marvel and won because she could always runaway, snipe, and then runaway again. There was very little that could be done. The last big reason is that wildcards, like the boys, are back in town and they are coming to play. With the change to the wildcard rules they will become more popular. No wildcard is played without batman ta.
One of my setbacks with Zoom is that once you put an stealth outwiter in hindering terrain surrounded by hindering terrain he is stuck. He can't go anywhere because he can't fly. You can turn your Holiday Killer into a tar baby. (The non-racial slur kind) Zoom has to go after the outwitter or he is stranded and then dependent on tk to do just 3 damage with perplex.
Without further delay here is my considered support list.
Support
Dr. Polaris 111
AE Diana Prince 32
Accomplished Perfect Physician 61
U The Atom 65
Chief 63
Prob
Zatanna 72
Scarlet Witch 35
Major Disaster 59 3 damage reduction
Jason Blood 44 mystics and prob.
Tk
Marvel Girl 40
Lyssa Drak 72
Perplex
Howard the Duck 35
Just to have a show of good faith here are some team ideas...
149 Dr Strange
32 Diana Prince
27 Gotham Dective
43 Holiday Killer
35 Scarlet Witch
126 Skrull Avengers
70 outwit prob Anarky
72 tk perplex Lyssa Drak
32 support Diana Prince
142 Batman/Catwoman
32 support Diana Prince
35 prob Scarlet Witch
35 perplex Howard the Duck
43 outwit Holiday Killer
5 pog kat farrel
With the team construction some may ask why no Chief on the teams and save some points. The main reason is that while Chief is your all stop shopping destination it also paints a big bullseye on his head. With mm fodder being a bit more costly then in the past it is best in some cases to make sure a figure doesn't do more then double duty. Anymore then that you ended up depending on that figure and you could be held hostage in the game. Also with 1 click of support Chief at times disqualifies himself. Healing is essential! One click of support is a bit risky.