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Hulk's power says, "When hulk is hit with a ranged attack"
Hulk's power triggers immediately upon hulk being hit. The result(placing him adjacent) has the modifier that it occurs after actions resolve.
Deathstroke's power says, "After an action resolves, if..."
Deathstroke's power is checked "after an action resolves." So it actually triggers once for every action your opponent does.
Technically when your opponent uses outwit(a free action), Deathstroke's power checks in order to see if that character moved adjacent, because the character didn't move(unless they have some crazy move and outwit power), nothing happens.
So if you hit Deathstroke and he loses the power. There is no longer a power there to check if a character moved adjacent.
Hulk, on the other hand, triggers when he gets hit. The 'result' is just hanging around during the attack, waiting for the action to resolve. Because it is not flurry or HSS, which state that the action ends if the power is lost, Hulk's "jump to" power waits around for the action to resolve, then jumps to whoever hit him.
Your major misunderstanding is to assume that Hulk's when condition is checked for after actions resolve, which it is not. It is triggered when the condition is met.
Deathstroke's condition is an "if condition" that is only checked after an action.
My comment on "triggering" was in response to what is the cause of each effect. When you check for the trigger is different, and you are right about that. But the actual triggers of each have nothing to do with when actions resolve. DS is triggered by adjacency and WS is triggered by Ranged Combat Attack. Neither power's "cause" is "once actions resolve".
That was what I was saying in the response. As for timing to check for the trigger, your explanation makes sense, but I still don't agree that powers should still trigger when there is no longer a power present. That is inconsistent with the way that other powers are dealt with. In almost every other case (except Charge vs knock back), when you lose the power, you lose it.
I don't care that you met the conditions for Worldbreaker's power. Once the action resolves, there is no power. No power, no conditions met. At least, that's how I wish they would standardize it.
Not so. Deathstroke's power is triggered when an Opposing Character becomes adjacent to DS and Worldbreaker's gets triggered when he is hit by a Ranged Combat attack.
Nope. The trigger for WB is when he is hit by an attack. The trigger for DS is after actions resolve.
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This is my beef with this ruling. In each case, the powers can only be used after an action is resolved. DS states "after any action resolves" and WB states "after actions resolve". The rules arbiters have explained to us that this difference completely change how we resolve these powers.
Could you point that out, please?
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I personally don't agree, but there you go. The only grammatical difference between these two conditions is that one happens after any action and the other happens specifically after a successful Ranged Combat Action targeting Worldbreaker.
Not correct.
The "any" just means that it trigers, well, after ANY action. In other words, it can happen DURING another action if an action resolved.
Without the "any" there, it doesn't happen until after ALL current actions have resolved.
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I can kind of see what they're saying to some degree, but I don't think the syntax is explicit enough to allow players to understand what is apparently the "authorial intent".
It actually sounds like you may be confused a bit.
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In each case the figure may or may not still have the power showing on their dial after actions resolve. There is nothing about DS's power that could not allow him to still use it when he loses the power.
Actually, if it is not there on DS after actions resolve, it does nothing because that is when it triggers. It does not have to be there when the adjacency happens, though.
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If neither power actually "happens" until after actions resolve, then that is when you should check to see if there is a power that will activate.
You check then for DS, but the check for WB is at the hit.
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This inconsistency in rulings annoys me. In the case of Charge vs Knock Back Damage, you would think that the process would be thus:
Attack is made --> the roll is doubles --> check to see if target is hit (roll Super Senses if applicable) --> if the attack succeeds, deal damage --> apply damage reducers --> damage taken (click the dial) --> Knock back is then applied to the character and they are moved accordingly (if Charge is showing on the dial at this point, the character ignores the Knock Back).
As the rest is just saying how you feel the rulebook should be, I am just going to say...
Don't base your thoughts on how you feel it should work, base it on what the rules say.
Iron Man uses running shot and moves past Deathstroke to reposition and go to the other side to then make his ranged combat action targeting Deathstroke. If that was not clear, he moved through a square adjacent to Deathstroke when he repositioned (and he flies so he doesn't have to stop moving).
PRECISELY-TIMED STRIKE: Deathstroke can use Blades/Claws/Fangs. After any action resolves, if during that action an opposing character moved into a square adjacent to Deathstroke roll a d6 and deal that character damage equal to the result.
Nothing in Deathstroke's power happens UNTIL an action resolves. Once the action resolves, you look back to see what happened during that action.
Now let's say Iron Man misses his attack and resolves his Running Shot. OK, now that the action has resolved, let's look at Deathstroke. Oh, it says that if someone moved into a square adjacent to him during the last action he can do X. Iron Man moved into a square adjacent to him, so time to do X.
What if Iron Man hit Deathstroke and Deathstroke ended up taking 2 damage. Now his power is not showing. Iron Man resolves his Running Shot action, but there is nothing telling us to check for anything on Deathstroke's dial.
Worldbreaker on the other hand is on Deathstroke's team. When Iron Man used running shot, he targeted both figures.
…Everything He Sees Makes Him Angrier: Worldbreaker can use Charge and Plasticity. When Worldbreaker is hit by a ranged combat attack, after actions resolve, you may place him in a square adjacent to the attacker.
Let's say Iron Man hits Worldbreaker with that same action he hit Deathstroke. Now he had 4 damage perplexed to 5 and was using psychic blast, so Worldbreaker takes the other 2 damage not given to Deathstroke.
But WAIT. His power says when he is hit with a ranged combat attack something happens. Let's see what it says. Oh it says after the action resolves you can place him adjacent to Iron Man. OK, Worldbreaker takes his damage, however we already know we will be placing him because that effect has already started and now needs to be resolved.
In short, Deathstroke's power doesn't even come into play until after the action has resolved and you look back at what just happened. On the flip side, Worldbreaker's power activates as soon as he is hit. Whether he takes damage or not, his power is already set in motion.
If Deathstroke is charged, and the attack misses, which action is the one that allows him to attack with BCF? I'm thinking it has to be the Power action (that presumably ends with the decision to give a close combat action as a free action) because the close-combat (free action) is not the one that moved the figure into an adjacent square...or is this the "active player's choice"?
PRECISELY-TIMED STRIKE: Deathstroke can use Blades/Claws/Fangs. After any action resolves, if during that action an opposing character moved into a square adjacent to Deathstroke roll a d6 and deal that character damage equal to the result.
Charge
Give this character a power action; halve its speed value for the action. Move this character up to its speed value and then it may be given a close combat action as a free action. A character using this power ignores knock back.
If Deathstroke is charged, and the attack misses, which action is the one that allows him to attack with BCF?
Neither. He doesn't attack with BCF.
What he does is not an attack, nor does it use BCF.
That said...
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I'm thinking it has to be the Power action (that presumably ends with the decision to give a close combat action as a free action) because the close-combat (free action) is not the one that moved the figure into an adjacent square...or is this the "active player's choice"?
Your thinking is correct. The power action is the action during which the Charger moved adjacent.
Bear in mind that the check is actually made after every action.
So, what would happen is that when the CCA resolves Deathstroke would say "Hey, an action just resolved. Did somebody move next to me? Well, it was a CCA with no movement, so no. Darn...no eye-poke here."
Then, when the power action resolves, he does it again. "Hey, another action just resolved. Did somebody move next to me? Well, it was a power action for Charge, so yes. *Ploink*"
They should really reword the powers to 'after this characters actions resolve' or 'after another character's action resolves' because saying "After actions resolve" to me implies all actions.
"What's my job? Oh, I'm retired now. I invented dice when I was a kid."
They should really reword the powers to 'after this characters actions resolve' or 'after another character's action resolves' because saying "After actions resolve" to me implies all actions.
They should really reword the powers to 'after this characters actions resolve' or 'after another character's action resolves' because saying "After actions resolve" to me implies all actions.
With the way you want it worded:
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SMOKE CLOUD MANEUVER: Once at the beginning of your turn, if Batman has no action tokens, he can use Smoke Cloud as a free action. If he does and places at least 4 hindering terrain markers, he and one friendly character named “Robin” can move up to 2 squares.
Robin would not get effected by his power since he was not given an action. But as it is worded, an action ends and you would then check all characters that were moved.
Quote : Originally Posted by Necromagus
When I came on board as RA I brought with me a mission to meet the intent of a power/ability and a firm distaste for exploits or loopholes that circumvented the intention of a rule. That's where the Rules team comes in.