Nothing. Once a game has ended, the result cannot be changed. Or at least, I've never seen it happen.

The fact of the matter is, it's like time travel. It is impossible to say what would or wouldn't have happened if that one thing had changed. It's entirely possible that after Shaw was caught shortclicking in either match, he'd have gotten a warning, and suddenly his dice would become super hot while yours or mine went dead cold, allowing him to win with just Strange even after a fair game was enforced. There's no way to know.



Wait, so he changed the story to cover his buttocks after both games? Can I just request a proctor for the match the next time I have to play this guy?

Seriously about the proctor thing, that wasn't a joke.

This makes me glad that the Board at least recognizes the reports filed. I'm aware there's nothing else to really do at this point, but it should make future incidents at least less likely to occur, or more likely to be punished.

I fine having a proctored game against him. Or anyone for that matter, I'm a decent player of really any strategy game that I understand the rules. If there is no protocol for cheating there should be. Of course to hide behind the ignorance of rules is the only option to save face. And no one's asking for u to time travel. Only to consider: players takes 4 instead of 5(which would ko the clix) without playerB knowledge and claims its due to a mechanic that is fairly known to not be legal. We aren't talking about sign in, we're just speaking of the incident. But hey the ruling was made the tournament goes on...

I think if you're found to have outrightly purposely cheated after a game/tournament, there should still be a penalty in place. As it stands there is a stupid amount of tolerance in this game when it comes to cheating when there should be 0 tolerance

I have been "cheated" in this game so many times, I've lost count. The first year I played at Worlds, my first opponent was playing a moleman/FI Dracula combination. Dracula had the belt with suit of sorrows, giving him battle fury. He told me since the card says "can" use battle fury, it was optional- novice that I was, sounded right to me. He mind-controlled Dracula with his moleman the whole game and wrecked me. That guy qualified for the finals that year. No idea if it was intentional or not. I took responsibility for not knowing the rules and moved on.

I have also "cheated" my fair share, if you want to call it that. At Nationals this year, I played Takion (a figure I wasn't overly familiar with) and forgot to half my range twice with the hypersonic/pulse wave thing the first game which I won. A friend reminded me after the match, but I had honestly just completely missed it. I felt bad, but what was I to do at that point? Resign? Hard to say how much it effected the match, but it clearly gave me an advantage. It was an honest mistake that my opponent and I both missed and I played it correctly from that point on.

Also, coincidentally enough, the exact situation that is the focus of this discussion sort of happened to me at the last ROC event I was in. My figure was KO'd because of knockback. After the match I realized the entity I had on the figure had invuln on the last click and I immediately thought, "damn, I wonder if I could have chosen before taking the knockback?". I asked two fairly well-informed friends, neither knew the answer. The third guy I asked did know and explained the situation the way it has been laid out here. It is correct, obviously, and a fairly common scenario in today's entity laden environment, but for a moment I wasn't quite sure.

My point is that this game gets very complex on the margins, merging special powers, entities, traits, atas, resources, etc.- it is entirely plausible for even experienced players to simply miss things or miscount. To me, benefit of the doubt needs to be given, more often than not. I'm OK with passive judging, I think it is better than the alternative. Situations where misplays/cheating occur are unfortunate to say the least, and I am so hoping for a clean Worlds this year!

I agree with this. Cheating should be punished.

In the instance of the event though, it still can't be 100% proven that Shaw did in fact cheat. The amount of circumstantial evidence overwhelmingly points to it, enough to have a jury peg him anyway, but the ROC Board requires 100% proof. Absolute proof of cheating is extremely difficult to put together because of how easy it is to play off cheat maneuvers as mistakes even if one is caught.

Fact is, it's DrEth0s' and My word against Shaw's. If only one of us had made the claim, it'd be a lot easier to sweep under the rug and play off as accidental. The fact that we both have extremely similar experiences that happened less than an hour apart makes the issue impossible to "play off" and much more serious in nature.

Do I believe he cheated intentionally? Absolutely. And between the information DrEth0s and I have together from our experiences that day, it's an extremely strong case. But we're not dealing with a jury, we're dealing with a 100% proof requirement. "Beyond a reasonable doubt" isn't quite enough here, and that's alright. The Board says they'll consider past reports in future accusations, and that's honestly the best that they can do in the circumstances while still staying impartial. That tells me that Shaw will be deterred from pulling stunts like this again, or he'll get whacked if he gets caught again. There is nothing more I can ask for here.

Passive Judging isn't the issue. I can't see Clix being actively judged anyway, it isn't conducive to the game. There was literally nothing the judging staff at this event could have done better, and I want that to be very clear.

Cheating and Misplays are definitively not the same thing. Misplays happen, but the same player is accused of almost the exact same "error" two matches in a row, highly competitive ones at that, including both instances seeing him change his story between the game and being questioned by the judge. Having been given a warning after the first, it's implausible to think an experienced player would make the same mistake in a subsequent match. The Benefit of the Doubt kind of evaporates when faced with this much circumstance.

I'd be pleased if Heroclix was a clean game at all levels of play. Unfortunately, it isn't always.

Ooo ooo I know this one! It was me! I was 17th, and apparently fellowship-ish-ly behaved.