Super Strength is different though, that's not your damage that's being modified, just the damage the other character is dealt, but ES/D directly modifies your defense, but if the source isn't you, I'm not sure...maybe they will errata all this because I feel they went to extreme lengths to prevent us from increasing these monstrous stats. And I'm the first one that wants to KO Abin Sur and Ancient One and give all the stat bonuses of the PASSING THE POWER and YOU ARE NOW SORCERER SUPREME traits to Spectre (since he's mystical and under 150)

It seems the consensus is he can get the bump from ESD. It does not say he can't be given powers by non-KC characters. If he is using a power that could bump his stats like RCE or ESD it is him bumping his own stats. Since he can use the power to bump his own stats and has the KC TA printed on his dial it should all work fine.

Incorrect. Items increase the damage you deal. Page 16 of the 2014 Rulebook. Therefore, items DO increase their damage and they are safe from their own trait.

That's what I was saying, objects do not modify your damage, just damage dealt. So in theory the new Superman with a heavy object would not have 8 damage, he would just deal 6 plus 2 once he hit the target. I was saying it's not the same as ES/D that directly modifies your own combat value. Still, even if this is all wrong, I was making the point that the new KC Chases can in fact use Super Strength by themselves, so we arrive at the same conclusion (also having SS and not being able to use it would be pretty stupid)

Objects do modify your damage value.

No. They modify damage dealt. You can hold some standard objects and not use them for the attack. IF your damage value was what was being increased as a result of your attack, you could hold some standard objects and not use them for the attack and get an increased damage for the attack. That, however, is not the case.

From p16 of the 2014 rule book: "If a character is using a light object in a close combat attack, modify the character's damage value by +1 for the attack; if using a heavy object; modify the character's damage value by +2 for the attack."

So, once and for all, the damage value is what is being increased, not damage dealt (which would be stupid, as it would allow you to get around the "rule of three" on damage, and everyone would do that. Therefore, at the very least, KC figs should be able to mod their own values through powers that they possess/can use (so, GL w/ ES/D should work just fine, even if he is given the power via the Shield).

This does, however, still leave the rings in limbo as to whether they can modify values by +1 (this goes for other resources, like PF and PB, as well). My guess would be that the eventual answer will be no, as it is an element of the resource that is boosting the stats, not a power that the fig can use. If the ring said that equipped characters can use GREED, then it might be different, but as written, GREED is the ring's trait, not the figure's.

I'm not saying you're not right, but let's say that if there existed a clix with a power like "Characters with a damage value of 5 or more deal no damage to X". So, if I were using a character with a printed 4 damage, and then used a light object to attack tha X character, then my figure would deal no damage because it's damage value would be modified to 5? That would be kind of sketchy, I mean, my strength is my own, my strength does not increase if I use a piece of wood to attack someone, just the damage output would be higher than if I attacked with my bare hand.

Sorry for the essay, but here goes everything.

@Kurokatana: Increasing damage dealt rather than damage value was the way objects ORIGINALLY worked. The problem with this, especially before Invincible was a thing, was that a figure could be perplexed three times, then still use a heavy object for an additional bump. This problem was exemplified by KC Magog from Unleashed (and many, many others, just not as egregiously). Three perplexes and a heavy object meant Printed Damage 5 + 3 Perplexes = 8 Damage Value + 2 Damage Dealt by the object = 10 damage. That cannot be reduced. By a figure with a natural 13 attack. This was also in an era of the game where paying for three perplexers and a TKer for under 100 points was *normal* pit crew tactics. Throw in ultra-heavies into the mix (or a special heavy that deals an additional point of damage), and it's an easy recipe for 11 unanswerable clicks of damage which was a one hit KO functionally always in standard play.

So WizKids changed it. Now objects modify damage value when used in an attack, period. In your hypothetical case, a power worded as "printed damage" would not work (the printed value is still 4), but one worded simply as "damage value" would indeed negate the attack since during the attack the DV had indeed changed. This isn't much different than perplexing a damage value to make an attack do no damage, and is one of the quirks of the game rules being rules for a miniatures game (like no one being able to see a single-base stealth Giant ((or Colossal!)) standing on a man-hole cover object unless they ignore hindering terrain for line of fire). It doesn't always make perfect sense, but that IS the way it is. From a game-play perspective, it's not that different from allowing the LE Absorbing man to ignore damage unless the amount matches his d6 roll, or Invincible rounding up to ignore 1 damage unless it can't be ignored. It's a rules interaction. Huzzah.

On similar note: nothing about the trait wording prevents power grants, or replacement values for that matter, just modification from a source with KC-symbol. So even ESD granting from a figure like gg206 Dr. Strange SHIELDS OF THE SERAPHIM would work since it's technically KC GL using the ESD. Blue Lantern Ring would grant the figure Perplex if it doesn't already have it, making a Blue Lantern Corps KC team a thing you can currently do if you want to forever be known as "That guy." CCE/RCE granted by Boxing Glove and Crossbow: check. Axe grants blades, which is a replacement: check. Sniper Rifle is a replacement: check. Outright value modifications by a *different* source don't, such as the ring itself if used on a KC GL possessed by Adara since the ring is providing the modification.

@Arokosaki: Thank you for all the clarification. I will definitely be informing others i have played with that have said otherwise.

Thanks for the clarification. Let us not be "that guy" then.

Don't stress it, the rules can be a PITA to keep up with, and I know venues that still do replace/modify, the rule of three, and any number of other things wrong to the point of being de facto house rules. I know I still get things wrong day to day and sometimes you just shrug and play it wrong to keep a crowd happy, or because of a particular judge. And I'm in NO WAY bringing the guilt trip for cheese tactics into play just because I want to do it first...)_)...(_(...don't look at me like that!

This guy is very good... and the reason I spent a small fortune on bricks this month. This really pissed off my wife and now my basement is full of empty plastic containers and ripped up blue cardboard. It smells like glorious minty fresh PVC throughout my house, however and I rejoice in this. 5 Cases later and I finally pulled Alan Scott... next step.. take the wife shopping to King of Prussia asap before this situation escalates...cheers!

dude, find heroclix international exchange on facebook. WF GL are bought and sold on there every day. whatever you paid for 5 cases of world's finest can not be more than it would have cost you to just buy every fig you wanted from the set.... god packs getting pulled left and right, all the WF chases are dive bombing in price. WF wonder woman was sold at $150 before the release she's down to $60 now.... congrats on getting the piece you wanted, congrats to your wife too. calculate the cost of the GL, come to HIX, great community! Heroclix International Exchange on facebook, stop wasting money trying to randomly pull the figs you want when you can trade what you already have for whatever figure you want... i'm not exaggerating.

These KC pieces are just insane. The previous ones are STILL capable in modern games (sans Bats). THIS is breaking point systems. The previous KC Alan Scott was 55 points more, didn't have a damage reducer ANYWHERE, didn't have built in willpower, and essential be made a Quintessence.

These KC Chases seem more like an attempt by the company to encourage players to buy more of the set in hopes of getting one of the One Hit Wonders.