I feel like my game has evolved a lot over the past year and I just want to get it on paper. I'd love to hear from other players about their own strategies, the strategies of other players here and on other sites they play on. Let's chat.





So the first bad guy I ever caught was Skrull Jackolantern played by Jackassterson way back in Peers's original mafia game. The writeup described Jack as a certain type of person and on a subsequent night, described that person being replaced by a Skrull. While I developed a rep as a dangerous scummer and scum catching townie, much of my play was based off writeup copping and twisting. I lynched Len Snart as townie She-Hulk because She-Hulk was referenced by a character but there was no proof she really was in the game. I was the last mafia member in Wakandaman's Under Siege game because I played off my Hawkeye boomerang arrow as a Boomerang thrown boomerang. I won JacinB's Arkham mafia while leaning on a line in the writeup that called me a "friend" of a dead townie (Batfink/Prometheus). I went after Antipathy in a TMNT JLA game for claiming to be aligned with a Justice League Detroit, which was an unofficial name. It turned out to be the actual alignment of a janitored player. Even in more recent games like Hybridity Battleworld and Smileytown, I leaned hard on writeup copping, arguing that Inferno was a mafia traitor in the former and that LocknLoad was a flavor character only based on the writeup. When in doubt, I went on gut reads and lynched the quietest players.

The first sign that I was freaking terrible at flavorless mafia was a vanilla game where GFish and I lead the town on several bad lynches. Sstralkowski irrationally declared his desire to lynch TBB every day. I took this to mean they could not both be bad but they were teammates. Sstralkowski's distancing play worked perfectly, even though it should have been blatant.

While playing in the championship game, I was exposed to a whole new series of strategies as well as their limitations. You can go back and read everything that was said. What looks like an accusation but is really distancing? Are mafia players calling each other 2nd or 3rd most suspicious, conveniently never deciding to vote for each other? Are they going along with the crowd but can't tell you why? Are they posting a bunch without saying anything? Are they really trying to catch bad guys? Or are they going through the motions?

The big thing I still haven't figured out is "How do you tell the difference between a townie that is too lazy to try, that has bad strategy, that is tunneling, that is inconsistent, etc from a bad guy that is not trying, is proposing bad strategy, is inconsistent and is unswayable because they don't actually want to lynch mafia members?"


To be continued.

Interesting thread, Jack.

I've thought a little about this but don't remember the progression of my game (or old games) as well as you do... but here it goes:

When I started playing (here on HCR is the only place I've played mafia) I feel like the games were generally a lot larger. It was tough to get a read as a newer player, so I'd default to "part of the herd". If I was scum, I'd typically defer to other players.

As I progressed I leaned heavily on my powers and what I could learn through them. If I wasn't an info gatherer, I was pretty weak as a player. I would write-up read and try to make moves through that, but I was never that strong at it. I rarely responded well to pressure if I was scum, and would often crumble. I didn't really understand the nuance of some of the finer points of mafia-ing (creating narratives, "safe" lies, etc). My one move was pressure voting.

The last dozen or so games I feel like I've progressed as a player. I feel like I rely more on player posts than powers, analyzing what people say/have said, going back to see what dead scummers said about other players, etc (like you were talking about, Jack). I feel like I have a better idea of when to apply pressure and how to construct narratives to convince myself and others that a lynch is right/wrong. This is most likely from playing less traditional games (in the HCR sense) like the gfish games, vanilla, etc. I've found that I've increased my survivability as a townie by being just helpful enough to advance the town, while still giving myself enough "scumminess" to avoid a NK from the mafia (since I could be a potential lynch target).

I obviously still have much to learn, and everyone's game here seems to be constantly evolving, but I'd say I'm playing better than I was in the past (feel free to provide your own opinions on this, sports fans :P)

I see you trying to steal all my secrets.

Nah, great idea for a thread. Subscribing so I can come back to it when I have time to reply.

What is "tunneling" in a mafia context?

When someone (usually town) gets it in their head that x person is bad and must be lynched now, despite reasoning that suggests otherwise. Sometimes it ends up being intuition, usually the tunneler is just wrong.

Ah. As in "tunnel-vision." Gotcha.

I could babble endlessly in such a thread (indeed I already have in past threads elsewhere on the Internet). And in such cases of Mafia strategy dialogue, where I can babble, I must babble.

There are a ton of things that can be discussed here, and I don't really know where to begin. Instead of focusing on specific strategic concepts, at least yet, I will speak to the most general notions of Mafia. This is the most fundamental question, I think, that a Mafia strategist can ask or be asked:

What makes a player good at Mafia?

This is as broad as it gets, primarily because the question does not isolate an alignment for discussion -- it combines them all into a single question. I think that's what gives the question value, because prior to receiving a role card a player simply does not know what it will be (if the proper integrity of the game is respected). I have come up with three basic, broad attributes that I think describe a good Mafia player regardless of alignment. These are numbered for visual simplicity, but it is not a deliberate order.

1. The player is difficult to lynch.

No matter what one's alignment, being lynched nearly always has a negative effect upon one's chance to win the game. A townie being lynched means a mafioso is not being lynched, and since any game features a limited number of lynches, every mistake is paramount. A mafioso being lynched means the number of avenues to victory for the mafia team is reduced and the possible avenues for mistakes and failure are increased.

This might sound obvious, but I would suggest that it is not. All over the Internet I have seen players accept their own destruction. They may be resigned and frustrated, they may be petty in their desire to see another player proven wrong, or they convince themselves through contorted logic that it is for the best. There are rare scenarios where a lynch can be a positive, but these situations occur far less frequently than they are asserted to occur.

Players who are difficult to lynch can boast this skill in a variety of ways: they might be great with coercion, frightening players away from the lynch. They might be immensely effortful, leaving players uncomfortable with their destruction for fear of losing that effort. They might know precisely what buttons to press for their specific audiences to alleviate pressure. They might combine multiple methods.

2. The player exhibits the qualities of both leadership and followership.

No matter what one's alignment, victory cannot be achieved without assuring lynches occur which are productive towards one's win condition. A townie must lynch players who are not townies. A mafioso must lynch players who are not teamed with them. To state this objective and to understand it is meaningless. It is plain. To pursue it is something else, and the voice of a leader is needed to propel a team (any team) towards its objectives.

A townie may make the best reads there are. They may bat 1.000, correctly naming every mafia player in the game. However, if that person does not motivate the lynches of those players, then he or she has accomplished exactly nothing. To merely be right is neither impressive nor productive. One must be able to drive the lynches in accordance with their reads (or in accordance with their team's survival), or nothing has been gained.

Leadership in Mafia doesn't have to mean a lot of posts, or a confident demeanor, or the arrogant dismissal of contrary viewpoints. Leadership simply means that a player is willing to pursue whatever they believe is in their best interests without excessive fear of being wrong or of the consequences. Nobody is perfect. A leader knows this and pushes forward anyway. Someone has to.

Along with leadership, a player must know when the time is right to step out of the spotlight and allow another player to take the reigns. When one person tries to shoulder the responsibility for the entire game, it can often sap him/her of their motivation or simply leave them with a challenge more difficult than is necessary. I know this well. This is where teamwork and trust come into play -- something townies especially struggle with in a game built around distrust. Chances must be taken and faith must be given to at least some degree, or town will fail. This is the reality of the Mafia game I have come to know. If leaders clash, or if players are too bogged down by WIFOM and tinfoil, then they cannot function as a team -- and town is a team.

3. The player exhibits competence with analytic and/or intuitive skills.

One must be able to make decent reads and to understand the fundamental tendencies of a townie and a mafioso. While there are exceptions to every rule, rules are still important -- and if one understands them they will benefit more than not. A player may have a skill for digging out tonal quirks which expose mafia members or power roles (depending upon what is being pursued), or a player may be able to collect game data and assemble logical and reasoned cases or theories. This demands consistent effort, and a healthy balance of open-mindedness and stubbornness. Do not tunnel. Do not give free passes. Do not distrust merely because distrust is possible. Do not work with "possibles", work with "probables". Trust is necessary, but that doesn't mean you can't continually reassess. Give your gut some air, but don't give it total control. Challenge everyone. Ask questions, and don't worry about whether they're obvious or stupid. Just ask them. Forge connections. Analyze connections. Utilize every shred of data available to you, for any post wasted brings you a step closer to a loss. Demand from others what you demand from yourself. Control your emotions and recognize that this is a game.

Great stuff JJJ. I think the 2nd point in particular is key - knowing when to lead and knowing when to follow. Sometimes you get a hunch/read/info-lead and you need to try to lead the town... but it's also important to know when you're tunneling or missing something. I know I've had to do this a couple times - you think you catch somebody, so you start trying to push for the lynch, examining everything they say, etc etc. But nobody else follows you, and it can be a little infuriating. Sometimes you're right and everybody else is wrong, but also sometimes you just tunneled on a townie and are getting focused on them to the detriment of the game as a whole.

That kind of brings up another point - a key component of actually acquiring those three skills you talk about is being self-aware. You need to be able to examine your own game and learn from what you did wrong, but also what you did right. A lot of this happens after games, obviously, going back and re-reading what happened with some knowledge of the setup. But it's also important during the game, because without self-awareness you don't know how you come across to the other players and thus are susceptible to being mislynched as town or caught out easily as scum. Self-awareness is good.

Of course, if you're scum and *too* self-aware, you risk being caught for being too perfect...

For me, I take a watch and see approach most of the time. There's a sense for me of "what makes sense in the context of this game" What is fixed and what is malleable? I try at least to not play the same way twice. Or I try to play the exact same way to set up for future games. Mafia boils down to a game of cat and mouse. It's just that who is the cat and who is the mouse changes from night to night, lynch to lynch. For me personally, instinct is key. I've played lots of these games and I can only think of maybe 2 or 3 games where my instincts were completely wrong.

I also think you have to be willing to sacrifice if you think it will give your side an advantage. And voting totals always give information as a townie even when you don't get a lynch in.