Why does Combat Reflexes ignore knock back now? I liked it better when you had the option of getting knocked back any time you took damage. That seemed more in spirit with what someone of Combat Reflexes would be able to do anyway (using the force of your attack to help launch me out of here). There are plenty of ways to avoid knock back, we didn't need another one. And having that option was unique to that one power. Now it's nowhere to be found. Why did they change it? Any hope of them changing it back?

I have never seen anyone use it like that. I know thats an option, but I dont think its a large part of what the power is used for. Plus now the definition is smaller and more in line with the striped down rules they are trying. Who knows, the rules change alot. It could change back, but who knows?

The option to take knockback has been gone since (I believe) I got back into the game. It was changed to just ignoring knockback damage at that time.

Within the last 2 years, they changed it to work exactly like Charge.

It's doubtful they'll change it at this point.

I agree with you and hope it is changed back, but agree with the others that I doubt it.
I myself really liked that option, and it worked well with a lot of the Batman and Marvel Knights teams I like to run to get yourself free from being based and mount an attack more to your liking.

Absolutely don't expect CR to be changed back with regard to knockback. The original power had three parts and proved problematic for timing and usefulness. The +2 Defense against close combat attacks was easy to use and mirrored ES/D.

The option to always be knocked back seemed confusing to a number of players in my area at the time and is somewhat counter to the +2 defense up close but could be useful in rare situations. People confused the effects of Charge and CR a lot, or just misunderstood CR, thinking that they could not be knocked back if an opponent rolled doubles against their CR figure.

The ignoring of knockback damage, while seeming pretty good, was rarely useful and had timing issues. You would check for Charge or CR at the time of the attack to determine knockback but you checked for CR to ignore knockback damage after the character was hit, clicked for damage and was knocked back. That meant you had to still have CR showing after taking the damage to ignore knockback damage. If you opted to take knockback but lost the power you'd end up vulnerable to knockback damage. If you opted to get knocked back and still had CR after damage you ignored knockback damage but were no longer adjacent to the character that made the attack, thus losing the benefit of the +2 defense.
In today's era of dials on the cards it would be easier to determine if knockback would be good for your character (i.e. easily see which powers it will have after the damage) but they are working toward less complexity.

I'm not saying I think giving CR immunity to knockback is necessarily better, but it is certainly more streamlined from a rules perspective.

Funny thing about that: I just recently got all my Heroclix stuff out of storage where they've been since 2012. I have 5 different PACs, & all of them are from before they invented the Pink powers (all of them have the Combat Reflexes I'm used to).

So I basically skipped this entire last iteration of rules. They changed it all right after I left, and they're changing it all again now that I'm back.

EXACTLY!!! I also like how you could choose to be knocked back, but if your opponent rolled doubles, you couldn't choose NOT to be (still avoided the damage tho, which is always nice). Much, much better system than the current one, I believe.

First part, totally understood. Simple enuf. No changes have been made, or need to be made.

I don't see how it's counter to the +2 defense at all. A person whose reflexes in close combat are sharp enough to avoid getting hit in the first place (+2 defense) could very easily have those same reflexes trained for when the hit does land (use the force of your opponent's attack to your advantage - very popular in all Judo type disciplines). I don't think the situation needs to be that rare at all either. Anytime you're based by someone you don't want to be, this allows you to get away instead of just standing there taking more damage.

There's always going to be someone who gets confused by a rule and/or tries to use it incorrectly. That's no excuse not to get it right.

Again, I'll argue with the "rarely useful" evaluation (avoiding damage is always useful), but that sounds like a gross over-complication, and I can't believe that's accurate, or even what their original intentions were. Knock back Damage is always added onto the attack that caused it. It's not a separate attack, so it doesn't matter what shows up on or disappears from the dial during the attack. You either add damage (+1 for a wall, +2 off elevated terrain) or you don't. If you had Combat Reflexes when you were hit (regardless of whether your opponent rolled doubles, or your knock back was by choice), then you don't get any additional damage. Seems really straight forward to me.

But if you're based with CR, chances are you're right where you want to be. He's saying it's rare that you're not.

When I said "counter to" I did not mean conceptually. From a game mechanics standpoint you are going from a situation where you get +2 to your Defense Value (adjacent to an opposing character) to a situation where you may not (if the knockback leaves you not adjacent). That was all. Usefulness of a power will always be subjective. During the period where CR allowed you to always be knocked back I saw very few players utilize it to their advantage.

You are incorrect regarding knockback damage. It is not added into the attack damage. You take the clicks of damage from the attack then check for knockback damage. If a figure with Super Senses is attacked and knocked back into a wall but gains Toughness after the attack damage they will not take damage from hitting the wall. That is how damage works. You calculate squares knocked back based on damage taken, i.e. actual clicks of the dial (unless Quake was used, or any other power with explicitly specified knockback). Then you assess potential knockback damage, applying damage reduction as appropriate.

Defense +2 against close attacks. When hit, you may place them in an adjacent square instead of any knockback.


What about something like that?

Ok, that makes sense. Maybe you'd rather be next to someone who's not going to hit you as hard, but I can see your point. If you get a bonus for being adjacent, why would you want to stop being adjacent? Still, I'd rather have the option than not. Good point, tho.

If that's true, no wonder people would get confused. If they're wanting to simplify the rules, this is obviously an area they should look at. I think Knockback Damage should simply be a +1 or +2 modifier to damage the same way swinging a light or heavy object in close combat is. Simple. Easy.