I'm an idiot. Tell me exactly what changing how he's worded to "Stop" would make a difference, 'cause I'm not seeing the reason to.

I'd rather stuff stay as is. It's not hard to read his card and do what it says. The words are right there.

Oh, right, STOP added a healing whatever? Blerp. Reading the rules is for nerds.

This is the way to look at it.

Unilaterally condensing things into a term because its easy for us does not help the game or the player.

Lantern Jordan and Wolverazio answered the concerns about the OP's post perfectly.

Condensing Hulk's "stop power" into "STOP" fundamentally changes his regeneration ability, which is already wordy and specific to him to begin with. Applying the new STOP regen modification is NOT at all appropriate for him, but it is what happens when players condense his power into STOP because its "easy". This is where a judge would then be called and depending on the venue or individual in question may rule incorrectly because of the condensing of these terms.

Read the card, play it as printed and let the new powers and rules be applied to the new powers and rules, not try to force them into cases where WK has not issued errata.

Yea, Iron Man was a snafu so WK fixing him was understandable and done very quickly. It didn't take 18 months. That was Wolverazio's point.

If WK really felt that strongly, they would have officially issued the changes/differences between "STOP" and "stop" a LONG time ago.

Condensing STOP/stop into shorthand is fine for casual home games, but trying to do so in a FLGS environment where people are learning and perfecting their play and understanding of the game is not ideal in terms of correct play and skills progression.

it's come up a couple times with my players. I've flat out asked "Does the power say 'STOP'?" when they answer No, they already know the answer.

"When this click is revealed..." is not the same as "STOP". Just like WW The Flash's trait "THE RED BLUR:When The Flash is given a move action, he may make a close attack during the move." isn't Hypersonic Speed. It may be similar, but wording is important in this game. If a power said "Characters can't use Hypersonic Speed", this Flash could still use his trait because it's NOT Hypersonic Speed.

This too!

You are not an idiot.

Changing this Hulk's stop to STOP would do several things. It would remove the stop from 'any damage' to 'damage from an attack' and it adds "Protection: Outwit, Pulse Wave."

I'd rather have stuff stay as is, but New Outwit is calling certain things into question. Should someone be able to outwit Hulk's 'stop' click before he gets there because it doesn't have Protection: Outwit? There is a clash of different design philosophy at work here.

Of course, the issue with adding errata to add Protection:Outwit to all 'stop' clicks might inadvertently protect powers that weren't meant to be protected.

IMHO, New Outwit should only be able to choose a power the character can currently use.

This just blew my mind. I totally played this wrong, not that I think it actually affected a game yet, because a lot of stop turning the dial clicks can't be countered or ignored and I'm not sure if the Regen thing has come up, but still blew my mind.

Thank you!

And that, in one paragraph, is why Rotation is a good thing from a design stand point.

Wizkids has existed for 15 years. They're not perfect (far from it) but even if they were, things still change over 15 years. If one wants to stay competitive. Some times it certainly feels like they have played very loose with new concepts and left the R&D to the player base but other times* it feels like they are trying and some things just break under the stress test.

But if every piece had to be balanced against every other pieces (and/or element) that ever existed, it would be incredibly difficult to get new pieces out. Or the game would stagnate and be long gone.

On the one hand, I get why people dislike that the Hulk was affected in this way (because he's a very, very good Hulk). On the other...when he first came out and was seen on modern teams, people complained about how difficult he was to deal with.

So...damned if you do, damned if you don't?

*I feel like right now is one of those times where design/rules/etc. are mostly together and in a good place. They're still not perfect but they seem to care.

I'm sorry, but no. You're talking about palm trees while I'm talking about apples.

One specific errata does not in anyway answer what I was talking about in that post.

At the time he came out, if someone came on here and asked if Iron Man had the Wing symbol, the correct answer to that would be no. Whether it makes sense or not, that was what we knew.

At that point, anyone dissatisfied should go to the Wizkids official forum and ask there*. To sit here, on this forum, and make post after post saying something doesn't make sense or is illogical does nothing to resolve whatever issue the person in question has. And when people get stuck on winning some fight here, that's when we get hurt feelings all around.

*I recognize this is problematic, because they say not to ask for errata but... Well, it's still more fruitful (as seen with the errata we have gotten) than posting on here.

What I was referring to are people who have a question. They don't read the rule book, come here to ask it, and then argue with people giving them the answer. Not ask additional questions or ask for a link, but just argue "that doesn't make sense, that can't be how it works." Or, again, people who don't know how to check for errata.

If you play at home, fine. If you play at your local tournaments, I still dislike that, but you have people there that (hopefully) can help you. If you're going to come onto a forum (sub-forum) about the rules of a game and ask a rules question, at least put the effort in. Not only because it makes it easier for me (or Lantern or dc, or Roderic, or any other number of helpful people) to answer the question, but because it makes it easier on the person asking the question. We can bold parts, we can just quote one other section to put something in perspective, etc. etc. etc.

And I think a reading of the rules forum will find that typically (with an exception here or there) if someone comes on and asks nicely/quotes/continues to ask nicely if they don't understand at first, the community tends to be incredibly helpful and sympathetic.

But dinks get dunked.


The logic trap is just that, a trap. A common complaint (that just got posted in another thread) is being unable to draw line of fire to an adjacent character that can use Stealth occupying hindering terrain. People can claim it's illogical/doesn't make sense and I can sit here and come up with all kinds of No-Prize-ish answers for why it is logical/makes sense.

But none of that matters. The rules say what they say and internal game logic is all that matters. Because it will, some times, require a stretching of your suspension of disbelief if you know/care about the source material.

But monopoly lets you move around a board as a pewter terrier. Some times a game is just a game.