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I SENSE A GREATER CHALLENGE: At the beginning of the game, if an opponent's force includes an additional game element, heal Trader 1 click past his starting line to click #0. (Current additional game elements are: ID cards, Equipment, Special Terrain, and Locations.)
Just to double check due to where things get written on an army sheet. Eg ID cards are written as part of your force, but the characters they relate to are written on the side line.
Are free elements that are solely on your sideline considered part of your force for the greater challenge check. Eg Super Friends ?
Second question: If the sideline not part of the force for this check, is there an order to at beginning of game checks? So for example as second player do my beginning of game effects occur after player one?
I'm asking in relation to the timing of
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MASTER SMITH OF NIDAVELLIR: During force construction, you may add three equipment-objects with different names of 10 points or less to your sideline. At the beginning of the game, an opponent chooses one, then you choose one of the other two to place in your starting area. (The two you didn't place stay on your sideline.)
The Sideline is not part of your force, so anything in there won't count. And if there was ever an effect that cared about an 'additional game element' on your Sideline, the 'Super Friends' wouldn't count, those are characters, just with special effects.
Technically, all 'beginning of the game' effects trigger at the same time, Step 4 of the Beginning of Game sequence. The order of resolution of simultaneous triggered effects is determined by the active player, which by definition, is the first player at any point before the first turn begins. Therefore, the first player will get to choose whether to resolve 'Master Smith of Nidavellir' or 'I Sense a Greater Challenge' first.
The Sideline is not part of your force, so anything in there won't count. And if there was ever an effect that cared about an 'additional game element' on your Sideline, the 'Super Friends' wouldn't count, those are characters, just with special effects.
Technically, all 'beginning of the game' effects trigger at the same time, Step 4 of the Beginning of Game sequence. The order of resolution of simultaneous triggered effects is determined by the active player, which by definition, is the first player at any point before the first turn begins. Therefore, the first player will get to choose whether to resolve 'Master Smith of Nidavellir' or 'I Sense a Greater Challenge' first.
This actually isn't true. And I point that out, because I would prefer if something like that actually was put in writing (or that simultaneous effects can resolve at the same time before the game and actually trigger other effects).
That being said, at Team Nats, it was ruled that characters who generate objects at the beginning of the game would trigger "I Sense a Greater Challenge" regardless of who goes first. Which is why I would prefer there actually be something in writing.
So, ask your judge. For balance, I'm fine with Nidavellir or Bearer traits triggering I Sense a Greater Challenge no matter who the first player is.
"I think it is very important to consider your venue a community and not a commodity." - tyroclix
If you are referring to the definition of active player before the first turn, this is on Page 4 of the Rulebook:
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For any simultaneous effects that need ordering before the first turn begins, the first player is considered the “active player.”
As for the main topic, 'Master Smith' is 'At the beginning of the game', which per Page 4:
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Before the first player takes their first turn, both players resolve all effects that trigger “at the beginning of the game.”
while for characters that start the game with an object, which is what I assume you are referring to, is during Step 3 of the BOTG Sequence, before Step 4 where you resolve 'beginning of the game' effects.
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The first player must first place all of their characters in their starting area squares, and any non-object additional game elements either in their starting area squares or off the map as appropriate. The second player then does the same.
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“STARTS THE GAME” TRIGGERED EFFECTS
Some game effects trigger when the character “starts the game”. This occurs when a character is first placed onto the map: during game setup, from outside the game (usually by being generated), or from the Sideline.
So 'starts the game' effects resolve before 'beginning of the game' effects for characters that are on your starting force. Any different thoughts?
This actually isn't true. And I point that out, because I would prefer if something like that actually was put in writing (or that simultaneous effects can resolve at the same time before the game and actually trigger other effects).
It is in writing. Sassamo is entirely correct on this. If things were ruled that way at Nationals, then they were ruled incorrectly.