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@quebbs: I'm sorry my strict schedule isn't really the best for you. It is the only way I see for me to get 3 phases in a week and avoid the lazy weekend phases, for the majority of the players in the game. I feel people appreciate the fact that I always get the game open and closed at the same time consistantly, rather than wonder when a game will be open.
Speaking in general terms (and not just your game mechanics) I think there is currently a disparity between having your 'faction' win when you're scum then when you're town. For example it is much more satisfying for me if I am mafia and my mafia I've worked closely with for days wins at the end, even if I am dead, then if I am town and the same thing happens.
One argument in favor of shared wins is that if you sacrifice yourself for your faction you could still get a win, which is pretty cool. If I am the cop and die N2 to an undoctorable kill because I outed myself D2 to lynch a scummer, I can still feel good about my faction getting that win because I contributed to it.
I guess this is why I feel that I see things from a merits perspective.
So following that, an argument against shared wins is that it waters down the feel of a victory that is really not merit based at all. I don't know that it's fair to give a townie/mafia who did't check in to the game/proboards and contributed zip but dies night one to a MD into a PGO (the least deserving win I think of) the same benefit as one who lasted into day 3-4 and contributed significantly to their faction getting the win.
Still some good food for thought, and I do like that your games offer this variant mechanic. If I ever get around to running my game (go sign up for it so I can get to 21 players guys) I may go with it.
Quote : Originally Posted by Jackofhearts2005
Changing the win conditions isn't going to fix turtling. You can say I won if I died night one and my faction eventually wins but it doesn't feel like winning this game did and it never will.
I personally think the best game (in all games) is a close one where the players/teams were evenly matched and everyone did their best. So I don't need to win. I'm just saying the wording of a win condition won't change player behavior much.
I think these are all good points. The mafia team is inherently more faction-based than the town, that's the design of the game. I've said it before but even with a faction win the individual goal is to contribute to that faction win, and to contribute, one has to survive. And it's definitely more satisfying to survive to the end than to die early.
Faction-wins are a good step, but individual playstyles are still full of variety.
Quote : Originally Posted by Quebbster
I think the main mistake you did was not claiming PGO when rorschach did. If you have a good reason to suspect another player, it's usually better to just outright say why and let the mob figure out how to handle it. When you just try to arouse suspicion for no good perceived reason, you look scummy yourself to the town. The mafia, on the other hand, knew rorschach was up to no good, so by trying to cast suspicion on him you painted a target on yourself without also drawing on any protection from the town.
True. This is the main reason I was able to stay alive. If you'd counterclaimed PGO when I did, instead of waiting until you PGO'd somebody, then one of us would've been lynched probably that day. If it was you, I would've probably been gone the next day.
That my claim went uncontested for as long as it did, and that Gira allowed the kill/GW to overwrite the write-up text that would otherwise describe the kill, and the false autopsy for Sully, meant that I had several days claimed before being questioned, and at that point it was just accepted.
Quote : Originally Posted by Jackofhearts2005
Twice, iirc.
Both times, people figured it out about halfway through. In at least of of the games, the facade of townies trying to lynch scum remained for the whole game.
This sounds like a lot of fun.
Quote : Originally Posted by DemonRS
Justify to me why this thread is necessary and I'll keep it open..
Quote : Originally Posted by Girathon
It pissed me off all weekend rorschachparadox wasn't dead.
True. This is the main reason I was able to stay alive. If you'd counterclaimed PGO when I did, instead of waiting until you PGO'd somebody, then one of us would've been lynched probably that day. If it was you, I would've probably been gone the next day.
That my claim went uncontested for as long as it did, and that Gira allowed the kill/GW to overwrite the write-up text that would otherwise describe the kill, and the false autopsy for Sully, meant that I had several days claimed before being questioned, and at that point it was just accepted.
This is what I said earlier. PGO is hard to play. But when someone else claims the power and you know you're the town PGO, imo you have to step forward.
It varies game to game and the way TB47 played it got him to the end.
However, if he would've claimed the town wouldn't have lost a very powerful weapon in The Gillman and the mafioso (RP) would've been lynched clearing up the Sully ghost write and mafia theme.
Fair enough, lesson learned. Although I was also unsure as to whether or not there could be 2 PGOs in a game. And no one seemed to get on board when I DID question it after I was outed.
@quebbs: I'm sorry my strict schedule isn't really the best for you. It is the only way I see for me to get 3 phases in a week and avoid the lazy weekend phases, for the majority of the players in the game. I feel people appreciate the fact that I always get the game open and closed at the same time consistantly, rather than wonder when a game will be open.
It was in no way a riff at you, sorry if you took it that way. I was merely pointing out that there was never any lynch momentum I could back while I was awake - that was because of the players, not because of you. A strict schedule is in no way a bad thing.
Fair enough, lesson learned. Although I was also unsure as to whether or not there could be 2 PGOs in a game. And no one seemed to get on board when I DID question it after I was outed.
Well, mafia players are a fickle breed. We tend to focus on recent events. Since the Phantom claim was de facto uncontested for so long I think people mostly accepted it. And by the time you claimed, most Town players who might have started pressure were dead already.
There's a lot of fingerspitzgefühl in this game. That's what makes it so fun and so aggravating.
I was wondering why you were so hesitant to use your power. It was designed with aggressive use in mind, but there were a few days you never used it. Half the town could be protected, and if any mafia took the deal, they would be weakened, and it is less likely they are nightkilled anyways.
Speaking of which, a problem the town majorly had was a hesitancy to put pressure on anyone. No one voted almost ever, except to rush bad lynches. Everyone was afraid to vote it seemed, and I don't know why, until end game, where you SHOULD be afraid to vote, you just pile on with no opportunity to defend given.
The reason I was afraid to use it: you saw what happened in the end to EnsRedShirt and TurdBurglar, right? The two town members I gave it to had lowered thresholds, and in endgame, it was a one-vote lynch. So it was a tradeoff, and a very clever role, don't get me wrong, I thought it was very cool, but it really seemed more neutralish. If I used it on scum, they could be protected from a nightkill; if I used it on town, their threshold was lowered. So I tried to use it cautiously.
Oh, and "yes to both," care to expand? I was unaware of any bomb mechanic I had.
Really only 12?? That explains Monster Energy and Cereal Monsters....
This is a game I was debating back and forth....but I thought back to Myth Mafia and went with Cerebus...but easily could have picked Delphyne, Hedorah, Sobek , Machien Man and more
Quote : Originally Posted by Girathon
There was actually a bit of this going on this game. Only 12 people submitted choices, and I think I used 10 of those. But you somehow still got Erik, one of two roles that inspired me to make this game, and Raven got randomed my riff on his Pusheen role he gave me over in library. I got frustrated with no one opening my boxes, so decided to make a role that would #### you up for NOT opening the box.
Gfish also randomed Victor, and being as he has been similar roles a lot lately, thought this funny too.
Adam also randomed the Loa, who was similar to his role in the game last year.
All in all, random.org was funny this game.
NO SANTA LEFT BEHIND
Not Just Another Empty Political Slogan
Hey I tried...I JK you night one actually based on a joking comment I think Rokk said...which kept you alive one more night at least lol
Quote : Originally Posted by Iceman425
This is why I get frustrated sometimes.
I try. I'm vocal. A lot of times it makes it so I can be painted as scummy if I miss.
That leads to the town not protecting a player like me, and then leads to my death because it scares the mafia.
It really does seem like the real way to win as town on this site, more often than not is, to stay completely quiet. Not share. Not pressure. And end up at endgame With a chance to win by default of others getting killed.
The only exception is if you're an outed townie with one of a few strong info power sets...then you get protection long enough to stick around...and that's usually the only way you get protected.
This is why I appreciate Girathon's question of whether or not we should change our view of Victory Conditions here. If they were faction based maybe more people would really try to find scum with less fear.
NO SANTA LEFT BEHIND
Not Just Another Empty Political Slogan
This is what I said earlier. PGO is hard to play. But when someone else claims the power and you know you're the town PGO, imo you have to step forward.
It varies game to game and the way TB47 played it got him to the end.
However, if he would've claimed the town wouldn't have lost a very powerful weapon in The Gillman and the mafioso (RP) would've been lynched clearing up the Sully ghost write and mafia theme.
agreed.
Quote : Originally Posted by turdburglar47
Fair enough, lesson learned. Although I was also unsure as to whether or not there could be 2 PGOs in a game. And no one seemed to get on board when I DID question it after I was outed.
Well, I sure wasn't going to say no.
Quote : Originally Posted by michiganj24
Ah you should have seen the heyday of Mafia I think we once had a double digit mafia
Dayum.
Quote : Originally Posted by DemonRS
Justify to me why this thread is necessary and I'll keep it open..
Quote : Originally Posted by Girathon
It pissed me off all weekend rorschachparadox wasn't dead.
Really only 12?? That explains Monster Energy and Cereal Monsters....
This is a game I was debating back and forth....but I thought back to Myth Mafia and went with Cerebus...but easily could have picked Delphyne, Hedorah, Sobek , Machien Man and more
Pssh I requested Monster Energy, and it was awesome.