Using the precedent of combat values not changing when a target pushes from a TT prob, I would say that the modifications would not apply (such that the values that are used will always be what they were when the dice are rolled). The only exception is BCF, but you can't change the fact that the damage will always be based on a die roll. You can't change to BCF after the dice are rolled.

You need to know the final attack value before rolling. When making an attack the rulebook says:

As soon as you roll for an attack, you are submitting the printed attack value and any modifiers you have as the attack value for that attack.

Wow.....first time I've asked a question where people didn't flat out know the answer!

Just to be clear....I'm not asking whether or not it can be done after an attack roll has been made. I'm asking whether or not it can be used mid-action (as in my first breakaway/charge scenario). No where in the power does it say it's a "free action," not does it say "can't be used during another action." Since some powers specifically say that, I'm guessing there's a reason it was omitted.

Since my players didn't know for sure whether or not it was legal, we rolled to see if we'd allow it. The roll determined that we wouldn't for that game, and Bane ended up taking the unavoidable damage (the side effect of Venom Pump) since he failed his breakaway. That's another reason I'm thinking it would be legal.......it has a hefty price......the damage he takes for using it.

This is an area that should probably be better defined in the rules. This is something that has started to come up and I think we are going to see more of it with this set. The other day someone asked about doing a similar trick with Pym Particles. Click here for normalview's response.

In the question originally asked by vorpalplus5, under the rules it would be legal to use the effect at that time (after movement, before the attack.) Under the situations suggested by Sigdr (doing it after the attack roll), you can see that normalview has said he would not allow that with Pym Particles. And rowdyoctopus has provided some good rules text to show it wouldn't apply to the attack value. But what about damage value? For example, if I rolled doubles and want a damage boost to cause knock back into a wall. Nothing seems to prevent that. Bottom line, though, with all the effects that are popping up that are non-actions and can dramatically affect the game, there should be some actual rules text to deal with all these situations clearly.

But the reason for that is different. Theme team rerolls operate that way for two reasons. First, the pushing damage from the theme team action token is not applied until after the original action resolves. Second, even if the pushing damage did occur prior to the action resolving, there is a rule that says that the original combat values would be used in the reroll. However, that rule only applies to rerolling an attack roll and doesn't apply here. Yet?

And of course if a character is using BCF in the attack, it needs to declare that prior to rolling the attack roll.

This was true, but the wording of BCF has changed with BN.

With the word "may" being added, it is a choice that is made "after making a successful attack roll.

But you still have to choose to do BCF before the attack roll is made.

I believe the addition of the word "may" makes it optional now. THat was a change from the FF rules. I think I recall that being mentioned by an Orange when BN rules came out.

You still have to declare BCF, but you don't have to roll the die (say that you roll a crit hit, and really only want to damage them your printed plus 1, like against R Shazam!), but if anything it is an "opt out" and not an "opt in".

Lets say you had BCF and Back Ally Brawl was in play, then you crit hit. You cannot then opt in and say, "Time to roll for blades!"

As Question pointed out, there has been similar arguments with attack and defense value, and it has been poiinted out that once the roll is made, you're stuck with whatever value you had prior to the roll. I don't see why Damage Value would be treated otherwise - if it works one way with one value, it should work that way with ALL values (in my book, at least) -, so I won't allow the activation of Venom Pump after an attack roll, period.
I agree that you can use it prior the attack even in the middle of a Charge or even an HSS attack (if Bane gets to use HSS via an event from an event dial, for example), but if you roll for attack, then it's too late. That's what I would do. I may be proved wrong by the Orange Squad thu.

vorpalplus5, after our game the more i thought about the ability the more it sounded like you definitely could break away... i cant remember what our situation was but i was thinking you were wanting to do it after the roll...so you were right if all you wanted to do was use it after breakaway and charge.

Can anyone provide a link where it is ruled that you can decide to not roll blades/claws/fangs after declaring that you're using it? The only things I can find indicate that it is not. For example, this thread: http://www.hcrealms.com/forum/showth...=280966&page=2 had 2 orangies in it, neither of which disagreed with the statement that you're stuck with using blades once you declare it.

That thread is also from before the 2010 Rulebook & PAC.

The roll is optional, but as ChiRocker said, you would have had to declare that BCF is in use in order to have the option to roll.

So you changed your position? (I'm really just asking. This was the only rules posse thread I could find on the topic.)

Ooh, pretty birds...

Nothing to see here! Move along. Move along.

Your search-fu must be better than mine, because I had a vague recollection of that thread and tried to find it, but couldn't come up with it.