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Replacement values set values to specific numbers. Divide as you choose is not a specific number (or specific fraction, such as half).
As far as explaining it in caveman terms.
Say you have a movement speed of 10 and perplexed it up by plus 3, then used Charge.
Charge says "move up to half your movement speed". When an effect tells you to half a value, that is a replacement. So, your speed is now 5, plus 3 for a total of 8.
That is replacing, then modifying.
If you modified first, you would actually lose speed.
10+3=13. 13/2=6.5 rounded up to 7.
Did that help?
Quote : Originally Posted by vlad3theimpaler
No, I actually make up rules all the time and tell people that's how the game works.
Simple example: Charge plus perplex. I perplex up my speed by 2 then charge. Charge halves my speed and perplex adds 2 to it. First I half my speed (replace) then add 2 (modify) So If I have a speed of 12 I can charge 8. 12/2+2=8
Unfortunately I'm the kinda guy who needs pictures with his instructions, I can read the above posts several times and will still not understand without examples. Had a former Judge who used to constantly tell me to "replace, than modify" and have still never understood it. Can't say as to whether or not I'm simply not smart enough to understand this, but definitely I am ignorant.
Anyone care to try in language that EVEN A CAVEMAN can understand? Help!!!
Every number on your dial can be changed in one of two ways - it can be modified by a value or be replaced completely.
Modifers and Replacements occur in any order that you want (unless otherwise specified; see: sniper rifle), but if you have both a replacement and a modifier, all you have to do is remember to use the replacement(s) first.
The only complication of that comes with things like pulsewave, which no longer uses a replacement of your range (it uses an AOE now) so it doesn't follow that pattern.
Replacement values set values to specific numbers. Divide as you choose is not a specific number (or specific fraction, such as half).
But that isn't how the rules read.
"Replacement values set combat values to specific numbers,
doubles, or halves; they never solely involve adding
or subtracting."
If it read:
Replacement values set combat values to specific numbers;
doubles, or halves; they never solely involve adding
or subtracting.
Then I would agree completely! It's a subtle difference but it's still a difference. As I read that, I divide my damage and choose an amount of damage. That sounds like a specific number to me.
I'm dividing my damage to calculate my damage dealt. This is a replacement value then for purposes of calculating damage dealt, right?
The fundamental point you're missing is that "damage dealt" is not a combat value.
Damage value and damage dealt are two different values, even though most of time they're numerically equal. The scenario you're talking about, attacking multiple targets, is a typical case where they likely aren't equal.
Damage value is restricted by the "Rule of 3" and uses "replace then modify" to resolve effects that change it.
Damage dealt is not restricted by the "Rule of 3" and the "replace then modify" rules don't apply, because it's not a character's combat value--it's a quantity of damage.
This diagram shows the three stages of damage and what separates them...
Damage Value-(attack hits)->Damage Dealt-(reduce/ignore)->Damage Taken
To further illustrate this, let's look at Two Towers Legolas Greenleaf, when making an attack against multiple targets while adjacent to Battle of the Five Armies Tauriel.
Legolas 2 targets, a printed damage value of 3, and has...
FINISHING SHOT: When Legolas Greenleaf makes a ranged combat attack, modify the damage dealt to characters marked with an action token by +1.
Tauriel has Enhancement.
Legolas is attacking Orc A and Orc B. Orc A has an action token, while Orc B has none.
Prior to making the attack, his damage value is 4 (3 printed + 1 enhancement).
Legolas manages to critical hit, hitting both Orcs. He has to split his damage value between them, but before he does...
Orc A is being dealt (? unknown damage dealt + 1 for Finishing Shot + 1 for critical hit)
Orc B is being dealt (? unknown damage dealt + 0 for Finishing Shot + 1 for critical hit)
If he decides to split his damage value evenly, Orc A will take (2+1+1) = 4 damage, while B will take (2+0+1) = 3 damage.
The fundamental point you're missing is that "damage dealt" is not a combat value.
Damage value and damage dealt are two different values, even though most of time they're numerically equal. The scenario you're talking about, attacking multiple targets, is a typical case where they likely aren't equal.
Damage value is restricted by the "Rule of 3" and uses "replace then modify" to resolve effects that change it.
Damage dealt is not restricted by the "Rule of 3" and the "replace then modify" rules don't apply, because it's not a character's combat value--it's a quantity of damage.
This diagram shows the three stages of damage and what separates them...
Damage Value-(attack hits)->Damage Dealt-(reduce/ignore)->Damage Taken
"When your character targets multiple targets with
a ranged combat attack, make only one attack roll;
compare this Attack Total to every target’s defense
value. Divide the attacker’s damage value any way
you choose among the successfully hit targets."
"Divide the attacker's DAMAGE VALUE!" It's right there. Once you choose how much damage to do, then you have your damage dealt.
"When your character targets multiple targets with
a ranged combat attack, make only one attack roll;
compare this Attack Total to every target’s defense
value. Divide the attacker’s damage value any way
you choose among the successfully hit targets."
"Divide the attacker's DAMAGE VALUE!" It's right there. Once you choose how much damage to do, then you have your damage dealt.
And once again, damage dealt is not damage value. It's damage dealt. Nothing more, nothing less. Most of the time damage dealt will be based on damage value, but not always.
To make a comparison, damage dealt is a bit like the postal service. It's what gets the package (the damage) from the shipper (attacker's damage value) to the receiver (target's damage taken). But all three are distinct parties in the process.
And once again, damage dealt is not damage value. It's damage dealt. Nothing more, nothing less. Most of the time damage dealt will be based on damage value, but not always.
To make a comparison, damage dealt is a bit like the postal service. It's what gets the package (the damage) from the shipper (attacker's damage value) to the receiver (target's damage taken). But all three are distinct parties in the process.
Where in the rules for attacking multiple targets does it mention "damage dealt"?
LASSO OF TRUTH: Wonder Woman can use Incapacitate as if she had a range of 6. When she does, hit characters can't have their combat values modified until your next turn.
That is an example of a specific number.
Quake uses a specific number. BCF uses a specific method of obtaining the specific number.
I really think you're being purposefully dense now, and arguing for argument's sake.
Quote : Originally Posted by vlad3theimpaler
No, I actually make up rules all the time and tell people that's how the game works.
LASSO OF TRUTH: Wonder Woman can use Incapacitate as if she had a range of 6. When she does, hit characters can't have their combat values modified until your next turn.
That is an example of a specific number.
Quake uses a specific number. BCF uses a specific method of obtaining the specific number.
I really think you're being purposefully dense now, and arguing for argument's sake.
Donimo pd027
INFILTRATION ASSASSINATION: Domino can use Running Shot and Stealth. Give Domino a free action when she has no action tokens, and until your next turn decrease her speed value by any amount and increase her range by the same amount.