I would do something like;
For action a Mech may move its primary printed value modified by the current effects on the heat dial. If this Mech does not already have a token, place a token on it. This is the Primary action. After it's initial move, it may elect to take one of the following Secondary actions (A Mech need not move to continue into this phase, but the Primary action is done):

• "Running" moving its primary movement speed once again, as modified by the heat dial; (maybe allow another break away attempt here, but that seems to be over powering it. Maybe allow a second breakaway against infantry only. I find it silly, that a single peasant company can keep an Atlas from moving.)
• "Shooting" Making a ranged combat order;
• “Melee” Making a close combat order (if in base contact);
• “Charge” Making a charge special attack (if in base contact);
• “Vent” Remove as many clicks of heat, as the vent rating dictates.

Making a Running, Shooting, Melee, adds a click of heat, while Charge adds two clicks of heat. To take a secondary action, the Mech must take a primary action. If it already has a token, then do not add one. Should the Mech make no Primary action, then remove the token, if it has one, and cool it one click of heat.

Now this is far from fleshed out, but it’s a start. People will complain about Charge only getting primary movement speed, BUT what this does, is make it so that only the lightest Mechs (mostly the Locusts at 14 and ½” away) can charge from outside of 14” range. What this does do, is give light Mechs a first strike option. That is how they attack assault Mechs, choosing the time, arc, what not. This makes Mechs more of a threat to arty, as it should be, and increases the effect of grapple in the game. It almost forces a heavy arty player to play a Mech just to engage an opposing Mech, if even just to slow it down. Under the "Shutdown" heading I would add a rule about being able to Vent then.

Just my attempt.

One only needs to look as far as the Solaris rules for balanced move-shoot. Heck, charge was even left the way it was in Solaris and it all balanced. There were mechs that were better and worse in that environment, but it couldn't really be said that any mech dominated.

Mechs moved half printed speed and then could shoot.
OR
They could move full printed speed and shoot at -1 to hit and -2 damage.

It worked quite well.

Big supporter of Mech move and shoot here.

Think of it this way in how you currently use a mech.

When an artillery pog is placed underneath you mech, you can either move, or take it (maybe allowing you to shoot after taking the damage or vent) Thus your options are limited and the mech can be effectively put in check by 2 40 point artillery units firing every other turn... unless you are in water blah blah etc etc. but the point remains Mechs are not an effective unit compared to vehicles and VTOLS for their cost. Making charge more costly just made Mechs less powerful/useful/effective in the current game

Yes, the Fast mechs will have a greater advatage, but who uses Bart and Cynthia in the current game? would you rather only a handful of mechs be useful? or a lot more to be more effective in the game? bart and cynthia still have relatively low defenses, and can be taken out by a solid hit. (unless they run back to get repaired).

The second problem is if there is move and shoot, why would i every "stand and fire" with a mech? well obviously you have to balance out the advantages of a move and shoot. maybe an extra click of heat, or an attack penalty. I am more inclined to have a damage penalty or attack penalty. -1/-1 is minor enough to Maybe offset the advantages.

The other problem is basing... due to the rules and mechanics of the game, Basing something is a BIG part of clix strategy. A 4 point unit could still base your 300 point mech and prevent any fire to other units. there are 2 ways to fix this. Allowing a Breakaway attempt when doing a move and shoot. Or allow the mech to fire when based at a penalty. Again, damage and attack value penalties are a good idea.

There is a lot of things you have to think about, and I honestly do not think this will happen until they come out with a rules re-write (a la MK 2.0) maybe this or the next year. There is still another expansion to come out this year and we will have to wait and see what happens with that one

I'd say attack/damage penalties would be the best thing to do, but leave heat out of it (unless the Mech is pushing, of course). If heat weren't an issue in move-and-shoot, people might actually be tempted to use Swordsworn and Stormhammer Mechs! Wouldn't that be nice?

Our version of move and shoot works as such:

Mechs only take heat from an offensive action, shooting, charging, close combat, or running.

A mech that stands still and fires gaines a +1 attack bonus.
A mech that moves half of it's printed value and fires does so at no penalty
A mech that moves it's entire printed value and fires does so at a -2 attack penalty.
A mech may not run and shoot.

endrick, um... nice rules... i think

could you add a little more detail? What happens if the mech is based? can it move and shoot? How does this play in the game?

I dont believe move and shoot for Mechs would be good. youd change one of the most fundamental designs of the game.

my idea would be an extended range shot for mechs maybe:
"Increase max range by 5 and lower your attack value by 3 for this attack"

yea, i dont think move and shoot would be that great either. if it is implemented though, i like the speed point design, plus attack modifiers. small, faster mechs SHOULD be able to get off several shots and move around more while they do it (and it wont matter against a big mech, cause those shots do next to nothing), while a large mech can only really lumber up and make a kill shot. we have a problem here with the Jacyn Bell though... (12 freakin speed on an ASSAULY MECH?!)

Most of the problems that people are (or were) complain about comes down to one fact about this game.

WHOEVER CAN SHOOT WITHOUT HAVING TO TAKE A MOVEMENT TOKEN HAS A BIG ADVANTAGE.

This covers : Tank Drop (move & shoot)
VTOLS ( move & shoot)
Mech Charge ( the only effective move & attack for Mechs)
Arty Armies ( just really long range shooting)
Turtling (make the other player come to the other side of the board and then shoot him when in range).

And thats just the most glaring aspects of it. Almost the entire game revolves around this fact.

Move & shoot for Mechs would radically change the dynamics of the game because : It would allow for a whole new range of maneuver based tactics.
It would make Mechs more useful overall.
It would put Mechs at about the same level as tank drop.
It would solve most of the current problems with the game.

I attepmted a unristricted event taht had move and shoot. too bad it was chisrtmas weekend and only one player showed up. but here is what happened

This player was talking about his tactics and he was EXCITED becasue this was complex and drastically changed how mechs were played. overall I think this would make it a better and more enjoyable game.

and i think that would be the goal of Wizkids in any of thier game lines.

When MK 2.0 came out, and everyone found out that all the "close combat" figures coudl do a move and close combat attack after taking a click of damage, the world was opened to a whole lot of new tactics and uses for units that people never even thought of using in the game.

I think you're probably right, Deadboy.

The only thing I'm not sure about is how this melds with the order system, which is not really an issue in Solaris.

Also, would you say based 'Mechs can break-and-shoot? I foresee slight problems for infantry following a successful break... ;)

i think that move and shoot should maybe has a little less attack negatives, and maybe a damage negative (like quickshot in SVII) to reduce first strike wins with big hitters. i think of it as yes, it's harder to hit a target while you move, but it's even harder to concentrate all your fire to hit the same target, in the same area that it would damage sufficiently.

edit: i just realize that you already incorporated this. gotta give em a try now...

I'd have to say that it would be best to have mechs unable to move and shoot from based, much like they can't charge from based. It puts a necessary limit on it.

As to the orders thing, shortly before WK pulled Solaris back in house, Brohawk was working on rules to include vehicles and infantry. Orders were the same -- Mechs got three actions on an order and vehicles and infantry got two. It looked kinda interesting, but it remains to be seen what happens to that aspect of Solaris play. I'm guessing those rules would have eventually proved to be slightly unbalanced towards mechs.

Sorry, when last posted I had a baby in my other hand and didn't feel like typing in detail.

Here is the more in depth look at my mech changes:

A mech does not take heat for pushing, or walking. A mech recieves 1 click of heat when it performs a close combat, ranged combat, special attack, or a run.

A mech that does not begin the turn in base contact with an opposing figure may do the following in addition to the actions:

A: Perform a ranged combat action with a +1 to it's printed attack value and not move.
B: Move up to half (rounded down) of its printed movement value and then perform a ranged or close combat attack with no penalty to attack.
C: Move up to its printed speed value and then perform a ranged or close combat attack with a -2 penalty to its printed attack value.


Playing this out, these are the affects we noticed:

SS mechs came out to play as heat became less of an enemy.

All mechs now have more options for how they handle different situations. Melee mechs and flamer mechs take on a new focus of being able to use their close combat equipment while moving. Now they are useful for gaurding important units as they can move in and peel off infantry or enemy mechs with ease.

A long range move and shoot option comes at a penalty that may or may not be worth the effort.

Artillery became less of a threat against mechs and merely prevented them from cooling down instead of making them shutdown from constant movement.

Infantry while being taken down a notch by melee mechs are much more important in trying to keep a rampaging mech from having as many options. Based on the wording of the rules, even if the enemy infantry is crunched it still did it's job of keeping the mech busy for the turn.

Right. Wouldn't the whole "three actions per order" get messy, though?

I'd rather see move-and-shoot (both the version with half Speed with no penalties and the full Speed with penalties one) implemented as special attacks like Charge.

Obviously, however, I would limit the minimum damage to 1. I assume you implicitly included that in your post.