Actually ive stop playing ATV's all the time.. and im still winning most the games i play it.. why? because i started using "TACTICS" in a typical 450 army ill run two mechs two VTOLS and a few assorted infantry and passably repair or sometimes a ARTY piece. ATV's cant base VTOLS int eh air. Most mechs break ATV's really easy (Heck the ones i use have jj and evade almost 90% of the time) so i move over infantry and ether cap or destroy the little weakened freaks. people that run BIG infiltrate ATV armys win but most the time they can lose REALLY easy.. i learned that when i started playing at several different venues where the ATV swarm has been seen and dealt with. they kicked my rear so hard in VC1 that when it came down to VC2 guess who won? now i almost never play a Infiltrating swarm unless i know that i can beat everyone at teh venue with it. i find that my crows and Arnis w/ the Sun cobra do a much better job of handling Annoying little buggers like ATV's. same with ARTY armys. people at my venues don't play them anymore LONG BEFORE THE RULE CHANGE. why, not the ATV's but people running good Tank drop/AnP VTOL combos that would eat them alive.. Only thing this game really needs is people to give Great strategy's to players so that they can learn Counter armys faster and stop WHINING so much....

I would like to see two rolls -- one for set up and one for turn. You roll off to see who sets up first. Winner gets to place first piece of terrain, gets to set up first, and places infiltrate first. After everything is set, you roll to see who plays first.

Would cut down on infiltrate.

Okay, Loco, that is fine and all. I use tactics in every single one of my armies, but when 4 Donars are waiting for you AFTER you break away from the ATVs, it is a little more menacing. Plus, they can just chase you down. Sprints can drop things off in the first turn. A BR Lego can make it all the way to your DZ running after infiltrating. ATVs=bad news. Antipersonal can do a real number on them, but you can only have some much of that to have it be effective. Also, SC Donars really rip through crows, and God forbid we ever get a VTOL with reflective armor.