1X movement for charge
1X movement for all infiltrate
Infantry get 1/2 the printed movement rate (this is a huge change)
No art.

Hmmm.

Lets see
1. First turn immunity? I would like to see a larger board actually. Move to 4x4 board. and have the DZ 6" in from the edge of the board. meaning you could move backwards if you wanted to. It would also remove most artillery from being able to pog you in your DZ on first turn. It would neuter the ATV's ability to base you on turn 1. the BR sprint drop would still be viable, but you make it like MK, units disembarking get a token. (see below)
Or change to infltrate rules. Make any transported units take a token when they unload. Remove the tankdrop. doesn't take an action, but you get a token.

VTOL move and shoot? I don't have a real problem with it, especially if you impliment a 4x4 board. Farther for the vtol to have to move, takes more turns, eliminates some of the power.

I would like to see mechs get another optional ability, counterattack, particularly if from vehicles. They shoot you get to shoot back. You both roll at the same time. It would make that DF donar think about the move and shoot at your mech if your mech could shoot back.

OR

Have all mechs get 2x range vs anything at cruising altitude. (you already have that mechanic in the game for AA units.) It would push back the threat envelope of VTOLS significantly

#1 First Turn Immunity: I would say yes. The ones that need it, need it the most, new players. "I...umm..well..maybe Ill get fellowship for being creamed." It's just a courtesy to be allowed take a turn before being attacked. Maybe it can be invoked by player 2 if they want it? Player two loses an order?

#2 Tank Drop: No more TARDIS systems? Hooray! How about letting cap 3 VTOL's carry vehicles (including unloaded transports), but take a token for unloading.

#3 VTOL move and shoot: I would not go with nerfing VTOL's but improve mechs. AA capability for Mechs would keep VTOL's undercover for pop-up attacks unless you were suicidal.

#4 Charging LOS. Absolutely! "I take a 90 degree turn around the building at top speed weave in and out of my units, take another 90 degree turn and circle around behind you for rear arc..." Also the target player should get a choice: 1) to make a ranged combat attack against the charger 2) or have charger take the default damage (1/2 primary rnd up).

[quote]Originally posted by Warflail
1) First turn immunity. For player 1, no attack rolls, no laying of pogs, no SS TAC blasting before player 2 gets a chance to do anything, etc.

Ok Not Bad we had to use that before and its not game breaking
But just go back to the old no 1st strike rule. Don't drop the Pog as they are not a attack till turn 2 and the new nerf was enough for arty.

2) No tankdrop. Infantry or "towed" vehicles transportable only. The amazing shrinkray technology allowing a Schmitt to be stored in a Maxim all broke down mysteriously overnight. Probably a Word of Blake plot of some sort.

This is fine, no real trouble with it .

3) VTOLs can popup/shoot/popdown with their movement points. They may not move/shoot or shoot/move. They may absolutely not move/shoot/move. If they are just moving (no attack roll involved) they can move/popup/move/spinaround/jumpdown/pickabaleofcotton/whatever in any order they like.

No, Nope Nada Don't like. Vtols are not the end all cheese that some make them out to be. The swarms are very vulnerable to things already in play. Just many players don't look to the creative ways to stop them, so they condem rather than think.

4) Charging requires line of sight at the beginning of the charge.

No probelmo at all. :)

Thoughts? Just trying to provoke some discussion here. Would mechs not be stronger because the attack methods that prey on them the easiest are weaker? [/QUOTE

Well those were my thoughts BtW a real nice line of thought you had posting this.

catsup_fiend wow. that was brilliant. I totally agree about their changes...

changes should only be made that fix multiple issues at the same time... no more of this 1:1 thing... it isn't working at all for them and only creates more problems.

want to fix tankdrop, mech shooting weakness, and vtols... fine, return fire fixes all of them. not broken b/c your enemy has to let you return fire by shooting at you.

or command hqs and faction pure? sure, if you run faction pure you can attach one and only one command hq to your mech. if you get command your mech (and only your mech) gets an extra order... so it could hve two orders that turn... not broken, b/c random when you get it and you have to protect the hq.

there are a hundred of such awesome fixes... they just never really ask for them.
-c

Personally, as of right now, I'm more in favor of the idea of making some units more usefull, rather than nerfing all the things which appear to be problems.

PREVIOUSLY, I thought Move-N-Shoot for mechs would solve most of the problems: it would allow for some minor Anti-Vtol work, avoid pogs, and make Light mechs play like they should. IE: "You can't shoot me, because I'm behind you" It would also tone down Charge, making it a lower Benefit to Risk manouver.

Currently, I'm in favor (largely because of Catsup mentioning it) of a Move-N-Shoot and Return-Fire optoin for mechs. ESPECIALLY if you're allowed to fire at the same time as that which shoots you. Removes the First-Strike problems that would arrise with Move-N-Shoot for mechs (so long as you have enough range to fire back)

Mid ;)

i am too tierd to reply to all the ideas, but i will try to tommorrow. But , i want to say, i like VTOL Move and shoot, but i think that after they shot, they are done (no moving again).

yellow heat effects fail on roll of 1

Nice to see some discussion.

I fear this thread is going to degenerate into another "fix X to problem A is better than fix Y" type thread. Mainly, I'm just curious what you guys think the game would LOOK like under that ruleset (or any ruleset really with the issues discussed nerfed or toned down). What would you run in an environment like that? What do you think you would be facing at your local venue very week?

@ corle...

Do you really think that it is VTOLs that keep artillery under control? It seems to me that mainly the only thing keeping arty under control (whatever that means) now is the public perception that artillery is not worth fielding anymore. Which, to be totally honest, I fear is just a misconception. Shh, dont tell anyone. ;)

Shhh! you are messing my worlds army!

-c

My mech powerup idea:
Mechs always vent1 at the end of your turn. Every order given to a mech generates one heat (plus any extra heat from charge or run).
Mechs dont take pushing heat. A mech that did nothing that turn vents its vent rating. No more vent orders - its auto.

For VTOLS:
Firing costs 16 speed points. (SC donar cant move-shoot, df donar can move 2'', shoot, move back 2'' - has to park 12'' from target).

Tankdrop:
good suggestion, but I'd prefer the "Tank from tankdrop remains on the table, in rear arc of transport", and "if you give a transport an order token, all transported vehicles also get an order token - includes pushing". This makes transporting vehicles MUCH trikier. They can be targetted, and they still have to move across the board - its just a 2 unit formation, with a faster speed.

First turn imunity. definetly.

Infiltrate is cool, if the line above in enforced.

That looks a lot like the ideas concerning improved and more logical (speaking from a BattleTech point of view) heatrules for 'Mechs that I would like to see in the game.

Nice thought Shiva.pt but with that mech rule the only mechs you would ever see played would be the ones with the Evade SE since with that rule they become Flanking and movement Gods that would be nigh impossible to tie down.

never mind to tired to think straight :confused: :knockedou time for some :sleep:

I agree that the arty fix isn't good enough, Arrow IV tanks are STILL too powerful. I tested out the new rules with a pal awhile back. He fielded a Liao Arrow and A Higlander Sniper. For support, he chose Arnis and the usual slew of cheap infantry and Fa Shihs. I played Angus along with some some tough SC infantry for support. Needless to say, he ONLY needed to give orders to his arty pieces. I just moved my pices till they were too pushed or overheated. Once there, they were treated to the full course of arty bombardment. In the end, I had nothing left and my opponent only lost a few ATVs...sad.