1) First turn immunity. For player 1, no attack rolls, no laying of pogs, no SS TAC blasting before player 2 gets a chance to do anything, etc.

2) No tankdrop. Infantry or "towed" vehicles transportable only. The amazing shrinkray technology allowing a Schmitt to be stored in a Maxim all broke down mysteriously overnight. Probably a Word of Blake plot of some sort.

3) VTOLs can popup/shoot/popdown with their movement points. They may not move/shoot or shoot/move. They may absolutely not move/shoot/move. If they are just moving (no attack roll involved) they can move/popup/move/spinaround/jumpdown/pickabaleofcotton/whatever in any order they like.

4) Charging requires line of sight at the beginning of the charge.

Thoughts? Just trying to provoke some discussion here. Would mechs not be stronger because the attack methods that prey on them the easiest are weaker?

if all that was in effect, don't you think the game would evolve back into pogwarrior with lots of command?

in fact, if the change to vtols was made, that alone would be enough to bring back pogwarrior.

imo,
-c

It's my opinion that these could all be very good for the game, but that we'll likely never see any implemented. I'm not so sure about the VTOL change, maybe just move/shoot or shoot/move but no move/shoot/move? Perhaps same old VTOL rules but half range when moving/shooting? Some sort of negative modifier could work. With the others I fail to see anything at all that could hurt the game at all. Oh, maybe vehicles could still be towed but the transport would have to move at the vehicle's speed value unless the vehicle was in salvage? Hover vehicles can only deploy infantry? Just tossing out whatever comes to mind. I'd guess some of these have been discussed before.

What if:
There was *Gasp!* no artillery at all?!

I dont know, would it? That is why I started the thread, to discuss it. ;)

Was the VTOL thing the only one you had an issue with, corle?

Out of curiosity (and to promote discussion) what would you run in an environment with that ruleset, corle?

Horrible, horrible idea, and not really conducive to discussion, since it'll never happen.

The game needs artillery, I've always maintained that. Without re-opening old wounds, the nerf was enough. Period. Leave it alone.

5 arty, 3 to 4 command...

what could fight it?
-c

What about VTOL using move/shoot, can't move after shooting? You want to shoot first, you can't move. Prepare for AA counter fire. It would make it- AA takes out VTOL, VTOL takes Arty, Arty takes AA.

Warflail, I like those ideas. Adding improved heat rules for 'Mechs might also take care of the artillery-threat which has been mentioned by corle. Getting rid of the click of damage for vehicles and infantry when pushing them might also work in battling against artillery, especially if the current artillery rule is applied.

Addendum: proposed rule number one is unfortunately a necessary evil for organized play. When playing on larger tables, it's not necessary.

-Nanhold for larger battles than 450pts on a 3x3 table I find Suskis "TechWarrior" rules very handy. It deals with Tankdrop, Charge-monkey-tude, and VTOL supiority.

I really think WK should have made transports only able to transport vehicles with "towed" or one's in salvage. It would be nice to have a cap4 trans. Capture a salvage or "towed" vehicle and take the whole lot to DZ.

Also I think charges should, at least, have to move their printed movement value -in a straight line- before hitting the target.

That would make it a lot harder for Steel Wolves players to get their infantry and vehicles to their prime click.

I think that the game has seen enough "negative" changes (i.e., changes to nerf a specific unit type) and not enough "positive" changes (i.e., changes to make a specific unit type better). In fact, I can't think of any positive changes that WK has made!

The prime problem with the environment right now is the inferiority of "shooty" 'Mechs. I would like to see a change that made 'Mechs more useful (move/shoot, heatless walking, maybe both) as opposed to further nerfing units.

Wantec, many Steel Wolves non-'Mech units, and also a variety of mercenary units, also have optional Special Equipments which, when used, can get them to their 'sweet spot' faster. But a rule stating that it's optional to give a click damage to a pushed infantry/vehicle-unit might solve this problem as well.

LordNth, a specialized Tank Transporter would be more acceptible for me as well in this game. The Garrot VTOL could be considered to be just that, now that I'm thinking of it. Recovering salvaged vehicles can be a risky business in a warzone, though.

Just my opinions of course...

Well, if the double move Infiltrate were removed from Infantry and "something" were done about drops and uber-charges, I'm not sure this would be necessary... Probably is now at the "highly competitive" level though... Until/unless something is done about the remaining loopholes that is...

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2) No tankdrop. Infantry or "towed" vehicles transportable only. The amazing shrinkray technology allowing a Schmitt to be stored in a Maxim all broke down mysteriously overnight. Probably a Word of Blake plot of some sort.

I'd probably go a step in another direction here... Having been a tanker for a while IRL, I do NOT like the small hovercraft "towing" vehicles double their weight, etc., but... I'd say that it's gotten to the point where even an Infantry formation being dropped into range gives a First Strike able to hit just about any Mech out there (or your target of choice... 13IT for 2AP, or 12IT for 3AP)... So I'd say to be fair all around I'd say we should go to something akin to the "Strong Flier" of Mage Knight where the figures get transported, but cannot magically act again now that they are in range... Just my opinion of course, but I think the whole "drop" thing has gotten a bit out of hand...

{snipping VTOL stuff.... I really don't have strong opinions either way here, but then we don't face hordes of them yet out here on the corn fields...}

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4) Charging requires line of sight at the beginning of the charge. Thoughts? Just trying to provoke some discussion here. Would mechs not be stronger because the attack methods that prey on them the easiest are weaker?

Hmmm... I think SOMETHING else should be done about Charge... Having a 30"+ Charge from more than double the range of "LRM's" just seems a bit much... I'd go with something to the effect of a Charge costs you the run/charge heat, but is only your basic move... I don't have a huge problem with the HtH mechanic, but making it SO powerful (super AP, no reaction from the Enemy, insane ranges, no need to get LOS or anything... Just run around that building) seems to take away from the basis of the game universe where you have lasers, missiles, etc... Ah well, just my opinions as always...