He was the first ever DBZ world champion. He took the only thing that made my life worth living until VS system came along, Mr.Zarbon loved that game as well. We were true masters of the jank art.

lol, American Pie, good song.

Anyways, I'm curious about something.

If you play a deck that at one point was the most played (therefore it would have been considered net-decking to play it) in a tournament now, would it still be considered net-decking if the deck is not played by anyone but you? Take TNB, if I play TNB at a tourney, am I a netdecker?

That part made me laugh. Other than that, I don't see your point. The metagame is diverse enough; the fact that your Shadowpact/Squadron/X-Statix/Injustice Gang/Speed Force deck can't compete doesn't mean we have a stale metagame full of "n3td3ckx0rz OGM."

EDIT: Not trying to be mean, but it's really annoying when people post these threads. Like markslack said, some people don't have time to take something untested, tweak it, polish it, then take it to a tournament. Also, the last time a single deck took up half the format was PC: NY, so you can't claim there isn't any diversity. I think the main problem was Modern Age formats, but UDE fixed that so there's really nothing to complain about anymore.

I think the main reason DBZ evolved into such a diverse enviroment was not because people didnt netdeck. I think it was mainly due to the fact that there were lieterally dozens of cards and combos waiting to be exploited to the point of broken-ness. So in the end, the reason why the environment was so diverse was because the game's playtesters and developers sucked, and although they constantly errata'd and banned cards, they were pumping out brokencard after brokencard in each set allowing for TONS of amazing decks.

Its almost a shame that the VS playtesters and developers actually know what they are doing =(

Thats a good question, well if its not your own, its a net deck in my eyes. Thats what makes PC's for modern ages soo much fun, you make ur own deck.

All of that is very true! DBZ had a Banned and Errata list that went for miles, but none the less that game was great, and everything was wide open!

Yeah, DBZ was definetely the Golden Age of my ccg/tcg timeline.


for now at least.

The funny part about this post is that he responded to a guy who said "I hate netdeckers do you have a deck I can use?". :laugh:

I'd rather have a game with stabilized decks that people can copy but also has some undiscovered gold than a game that is so diverse because there is too much broken stuff to deal with. Hence, why I play Vs System more than I do games published by Score.

Nothing personal to Score, either. The games are fun, but they aren't exactly well known for balance.

To be blunt, the reason you saw so much creativity in the DBZ CCG was because the average competitive player playing the game didnt know what they were doing. I dont like to toot my own horn, but I was always 1st-6th seat in EVERY premier event I played in after day one. (Excluding Minnesota regionals GT Era, where I was like 5-1 losing to the undefeated and was something like 10th seat). That is EVERY event I played in, all Nationals, Worlds, Regionals, etc. I was the first seat going into day two of both DBZ Grand Kai Invitationals, and actually went undefeated in 2004 until the finals where I lost to Dustin Morbito. I was 10-0 after the swiss, and If I recall correctly the next closest person was 7-3.

I am not stating my credentials to be cocky and brag about being good at a dead game, but to prove a point. People like Richie Williams, Eric Kunkel and I consistently performed at that level because we were above most of our competition at the time. I can tell you that the theories going into our decklists were head-over heels better than any of the strategem others invoked into their decklists. Even though we played practically different decks at every event (with the exception of a long Namekian reign), we consistently performed well by building decks using a method that was just above the curve at the time, as well as providing each other with ultra-rares and other hard to obtain cards that others couldnt get.

If Score had actually done coverage of the game, or if fan sites were able to obtain decklists of top-performing decks, you would have had a metagame in DBZ. The knowledge of the mass is greater than that of the individual. IMO, other DBZ players would have improved greatly by seeing our decklists, and to a lesser extent vice versa. If one person performs well, the next result is another person performing better off those same ideas. That 'self-inducing,' continuous cycle would continue throughout the entire community until a metagame is established.

Dont blame Aik for the many blunders of Scores R&D. He was the best designer Score had at the time. He is also a all around cool guy, and is responsible for creating Re-Z (A better game mechanically as I hear, but obviously not as popular). Chipmunk is a nice guy, but definitely doesnt have the creative talent nor raw skill to create or design a card game (the fact that he was literally high while making the cards didnt help either). IQ was mean, weird, possessive, and all around just a manipulative scumbag if you ask me.

I can tell you I am a better card player now than I was when I used to play DBZ. Am I at that same level in VS now that I was in DBZ? No way, not even close. VS is a more intricate and much less degenerate game that takes immensely more skill to play at its highest levels. Overall, VS is a good game. Good games require metagames to thrive. At its very basic level, metagames dictate the economy of cards as well as create a 'collective-conscious' all can draw from to improve their own ideas. Both are important for longevity of any modern day society, as well the longevity of a card game.

Batow is pretty much right when it comes to the overall skill level of Z players. While DBZ was definetly broke in many regards, it was definetly the funnest time in a card game that I ever had, mostly because of the people playing it. Z players mostly consisted of people who were not hardcore games but just happened to start playing DBZ for some reason or another. Considering only 3-4 people have done well in VS coming from Z, should be a sign of how more difficult VS is.

As for Batow, I was 8-2 at at GKI also, and if the damn top cut would have been Constructed, we all know I would have won.

But #### DBZ, its over, and unfortunately it aint ever coming back.

I wish excuses to talk about the game of dbz would come along more often.

"Those were the days..."

Getting back to the point of this thread...

I'm no pro, and I don't netdeck either, but I LOVE the fact that other people do. The fact that most people at any given PCQ or 10K will be playing one of several popular decks allows me to build and test a rogue deck TECHED OUT to beat every one (or at least most) of them.

During a match, I know exactly how to beat any popular netdeck with my rogue deck, but they have NO IDEA WTF I'm doing with mine because they've never seen anything like it before. That gives me a HUGE advantage, and it has worked out well for me at recent tournaments.

I most definatly agree with you, but I think it would make this game alot more fun if people came up with their own ideas, rather then bandwagoning off your teams ideas, FTN, and the donkeys. There will always be net deckers as long as there are decklists given to the public, that cannot be avoided. So the prices of cards will be set on the basis of what decks NEED them and such. However, this game is making a slow transition into that of which I stated above. Whether or not you were above the curve,(which you definatly were, I witnessed first hand) and whether or not the game had broken loops isnt the issue. I think it would make this game far more competitive if people made their own decks and not net decks, thus making it a great game rather then a good one. There are many strategies that may have been over looked because of lazyness and such because it is far easier to just take a deck list off the internet play with it alittle then go out to a tourny. But I do see your point.

BTW, Im just a chipmunk fan, so im bias there.