I must have read it wrong somewhere. i honestly hardly ever use the chief, and if i miss a manipulate i just pull off another one.

and to absolut, it's ok to angry post we all get there some times!

and lastly, the way i've always played it is when players tie you just roll again until there is no tie. (that way imo its fairer)

The more i read the more i don't know, i never claimed to be right in the first place i just don't see why you couldnt PC it.

(of course i have read the other side of it) But it still stands that it is from the action of Figure A that starts it and figure B is protecting themselves...


also i was only trying to point out what could be re-rolled if this were the case. (only the outwitter's roll, not the target)

I look at it like this:

If the effect is coming from a Power or Feat possessed by the character than it is re-rollable.

You would need Line of Fire to the character assigned Outsmart to Prob it.

Prob is not usable on game effects not initiated by the characters on the board. BFC's and Special Objects and Map effects, for example, would not be PC-able.

At least for now that is how I see it...

In most cases, this is exactly why you are normally able to reroll certain feats, but the distinction here comes in where Outsmart specifically points out that "you and the opposing character's controller each roll 2d6"

And this is a very small distinction but it's all about the specification of "you and the opposing character's controller" in telling why the dice are being rolled... in many other examples with things like Special powers such as M&M Apocalypse, AA Two Face, M&M Dark Beast, and so on each of their special powers that calls for a dice rolls simply asks "roll a d6" in each example (Dark Beast: Give Dark Beast a power action and roll a d6, Apocalypse: When Apocalypse would take pushing damage, roll a d6, Two Face: Once per turn, before you give an action to Two-Face during your turn, roll a d6) whereas Outsmart specifically differentiates by saying you and the opposing character's controller each roll 2d6. Once again, a very small difference in wording, but I think it makes all the difference in distinguishing the two as affect able or not by in game elements like probability control.

good point 7.

also remember that this feat was made and worded by a fan... so the wording wasnt designed by by your normal GD

Really?!?!? I thought the only fan-made feat was Takedown....an extremely useful and well-worded feat.

lol.... You really know how to get a laugh out of me don't you Harpua... doesn't matter the site, always with the Takedown Jabs... lol. Love it.

The fan made winners actually went through a slight revision process. I can attest to this because when I originally designed Takedown, it's cost was 10 points and only incapacitate qualified as a prerequisite. This was just point cost and pre-reqs that were modified slightly though, so you may have a point with the wording.

I wasn't actually joking.

The tone though... I know that tone (or rather word choice and structure, seeing as how it is not spoken). You're not hiding anything from me Harpua lol.

But yeah, their were 4 lucky winners (well actually... technically not lucky, since it wasn't random by any means).

Outsmart
Shield Disruptor
Malice
and everyone's favorite: Takedown of course.

All really good additions to the game though honestly, I've used each of them to great effect on more than a few teams.

For what it is worth (I know I am a few days late to the party): I agree with absolutvt69, Harpua, and co.

The feat is pretty specific in saying that "you and the opposing character's controller each roll 2d6," which indicates that it really doesn't have anything to do (dice-wise, at least) with the characters on the map.

If, instead, the roll-off was meant to be character specific it would probably read something like:

When a power possessed by the character or an adjacent friendly character would be countered by an opposing character's power or ability, roll 2d6; the character using Outwit must also roll 2d6. Compare the results blah, blah, blah...

Considering the wording of PC, I would think that one would be able to re-roll their roll if their opponent's use of Outsmart, however...

I have no idea who the PC'er would need LoS to. I would say to the opposing character using Outsmart as Outsmart does not state that the opposing character is making the roll but rather the opposing player.

Therefore the roll request is being generated by the opposing player (although you are re-rolling your roll as it's your turn).

Outsmart doesn't have any wording to say that PC can't be used, therefore the wording of PC over-rules the rules. Cause if a power says you can do something that would be against the rules, then the power wins.

Outsmart doesn't need specific wording to exclude something that cannot be done normally. As indicated previously:

I'm still waiting for someone to reasonably explain how PC can target a roll-off between one player or another.

Just the opposite in fact. You have to prove that the rules are contradicting, which they are not. You are making a roll during your turn and are using PC to reroll your roll. What's the confusion?

PROBABILITY CONTROL: Once during your turn, this character allows you to reroll one of your dice (or die) rolls and to ignore the result of the original roll. All dice used in the original roll must be rerolled. A character using this power must be within 10 squares of the character for which the original roll was made, and have a clear line of fire to that character. A character can use this power on itself. Using the same rules, once per round during an opponent’s turn, this character allows you to force that opponent to reroll one of his or her dice (or die) rolls and to ignore the result of the original roll.


OUTSMART:

Prerequisites: Mastermind or Outwit

Choose a character.

When a power possessed by the character or an adjacent friendly character would be countered by an opposing character's power or ability, you and the opposing character's controller each roll 2d6. If your result is more, the power is not countered instead.

---

The only thing that I can think of which would be confusing is that the PC'er has to target the character for which the roll is being made, and in this case the roll request is coming from an opposing character as opposed to your own character during your turn.

No...the roll is coming directly from the players, not from the characters.

Since the characters are not rolling, there's nobody at all to which one can draw LoF.

Can I ask an off-topic but related question?

With Cheif's "Manipulate" SP, who would be PC'd for the roll, the
figure who is taking the second token, or Chief?

MANIPULATE: The Chief can use Leadership. If Leadership would allow you to add an action to your action total for the turn, you can instead put a Manipulate token on the Chief's character card if there are two or fewer Manipulate tokens on the card. When another friendly character would take pushing damage, you can remove a Manipulate token from the Chief's character card and roll a d6; on a result of 3-6, the character ignores pushing damage.

It seems like it could be the figure who is taking the action, but it also seems to me that it could be Cheif, since he is the one with the power and doing the "manipulating".

Thoughts?

Chief is the one using the power, so he would be the one you want to target with PC.