That is absolutely the problem. This expectation of specific compensation and prizes is entirely the fault of Wizkid's prize system. That is why attendance fluctuates heavily based on the prize, and that is why we hear stories of judge and player collusion and greed when sought after prizes are on the line.

Non-unique prizes is probably why games like Magic have a much "healthier" event system with less corruption and greed.

Wasn't the most famous gaming tournament fraud case centered around Magic?

If its the one I am thinking of, they made an example out of him and I doubt you will find people willing to cross Wizards after that.

I was just wondering how such a healthy prize support system such as the one you attributed to Magic, could lead to the most notorious case of gaming deception and fraud?

I will agree that Wizkids prize system sucks. I believe it's their way of compensating for the poor quality products they sell. Instead of producing a product that will sell itself, they instead entice people to buy the product by offering limited, highly sought after, prizes. FFG doesn't seem to have any problem moving product, yet their prize system offers nothing that can't also be bought in a store. They also provide a better quality product, and arguably a more balanced game. Unfortunately I am a huge Trek fan

I think it was notorious because of the length of time involved and the fact that Wizards actually sued them and won with a judgement of $100,000.

I have known a few venues who did and may still be doing with Heroclix prizes what that group was doing with Magic cards. We already have reports here on the realms of such with WoL. I think most game companies don't have the resources to go after someone the way Wizards did and therefore the actions of such companies against fraud are a lot more muted.

I completely agree with your last paragraph. I'm glad I am a huge Star Wars fan.

If you get a chance, and like fantasy games, take a look at Warhammer Diskwars by FFG. Its like playing a miniatures game without having to invest in miniatures. The starter box gives you enough stuff for 4 players (Chaos, Empire, High Elves and Orcs).

This a million times.

I do like Star Wars, too, and my resolve for not playing X-Wing is slowly deteriorating (doesn't help that I know people that play and FFG is releasing the Outrider...), but really I like the Star Trek setting much better, and ultimately theme trumps most other considerations for me with gaming. At least WK has released a pretty good diversity of ships, so you can still get a lot of mileage out of the game without worrying about getting a single LE, and ignoring whatever you feel is unbalanced.

The main issue I'm running into is that, while it can be fun, Organized Play gets to be a bit of a drag if it's the only gaming I do, which at the moment is the case with STAW. I'd put the leg-work into building up a more casual player group if I had the time, but it's just not feasible at the moment

Not really into that kind of genre. I may give Dropzone Commander a try sometime if I can find the time.

I run two venues of AW and it sells well, because I am moving them and getting players. XW isn't doing anything at one venue and very little at the other one. That changes Sunday when I start running the first of our events. Like I had said before the health of both games rely upon me. I am making the push, I am teaching the players and I am getting people the pieces to use until they buy their own. I am doing this because I like the system. After I get XW stable going back to Wings of Glory if I can. I enjoy the game and the one thing that annoys me about FFG, and this is what I hear from many of my players and prospective players, is their real lack of prize support. People like the ships as LE's and resources because they feel as if they are getting something for their money. OP kits cost cash (for some reason FFG charges what Wizkids does from what I am told) and not all venues can comp the charges.

I am not so sure about balanced as I have played on a couple games myself but I do like the way the model looks better even if they are more fragile. I think what I like about AW is the fact you have more choices to play or styles of ships and that may appeal to many more people. Variety has an advantage after all. I do know that if I told some of my AW people there were LE ships or something better than alt art cards more people might play, or at least give it a chance.


Many stores that do Magic (neither shop does Pokemon or Yu-Gi-Oh) often get store credit, booster boxes and points for future events where I think many people look. From what I understand in my FB XW group they often play large events for cash and that makes sense. I have no idea what to expect from XW but I am more than willing to try it.




I find it amusing that it seems that all those who run seem to be bad people because we like getting something for it. Over and over I see that it is the store not Wizkids that should think of the Judge but I think it is more like this. A store buys a kit with prizes for the players with one intended for a judge too. If Wizkids is not putting in a judge prize wanting stuff to go to players are they going to save the cost in the price of the kit or are they just reducing and keeping extra profit and telling the venue that they need to buy the kit AND help out the judge at the same time at an increase to them? I was at my venue earlier and the owner was talking about dicemasters and wanting to get it going when the starters get there (he has the op kits in the back) and I thought back to this conversation. Right now I am sitting in the spot of do I agree and get the game running at both venues or do I pass knowing that if I do not it might not appear at either of the venues. The place where I do clix they owner is not the best at running events and spends a good time playing magic or Warhammer 40K

Like I said before, its great that you foster play of those games at your store, but its not your responsibility. If it takes that much time and energy to coax people to play, maybe the game isn't right for the area.

Most games I see getting run locally are done so because there are several players looking for a place to play, not because one person championed the game. Usually when one person gets a game going, that game dies when that person stops playing. That sort of reliance usually isn't good for a venue.

I also don't think people who run games are bad people, I do think people who always expect something for running a game are a little on the greedy side. If you get something great, if you don't, move on, its a game, not your livelihood.

Your post reads like you are trying to be a gaming martyr and we should give you your sainthood for keeping these games alive in your area. Its a hobby, enjoy it, if you find yourself #####ing on internet forums about not getting compensated for keeping those games going, maybe its time to stop being a event organizer and find a place where you can be a player.

Considering the price the acrylic tokens generally go for on the secondary market, the argument strikes me as a tad disingenuous.

Speaking for me personally, and not the general public, prizes that have no significant difference than their common counterpart are not worth any extra time or money.

I would not be excited over "alternate art" cards.

It's not just the competitive prizes, the participation prizes are often a bigger draw. You get fun game components that enhance the game in the form of resources, ship bases colored for for the 4 main factions, and events 5 and 6 of the DW was ships, how cool is that, ships just for showing up. What gamer wouldn't like an actual game component for a grand prize, even if it's not legal for competitive play, as opposed to a trophy?

Acrylic tokens for competition prizes are not bad, but eventually you will get all you need. A new ship for each for each event never gets old.

A certain portion of the gaming community, such as yourself, hates LE prizes. That is a legitimate stance. Those of us who like LE prizes will generally find FFG to be way behind Wizkids when it comes to prize support.

As a game company I like FFG just fine, in fact I have more games and spent more money on FFG games than WizKids if that tells you anything. Only Wizkids was able to draw me out of my comfortable little world of casual gaming into the world of organized play. It was their excellent prize support that did it. For those that don't have an aversion to LE prizes (and it's ok if you do), Wizkids is leaps and abounds better than FFG when it comes to prize support.

The only thing the secondary market proves is that there are people out there that have the irrational need to have "Everything" no matter the cost. Putting aside a genuine like of one property over another, if you said to a group of players you have to pay a $5-$10 entry fee to play in a tournament which one do you want to enter, overwhelmingly people would choose Attack Wing with its OP only ship prizes rather that the alternative game elements that are simply fancy copies of things they already have. Don't get me wrong, I personally prefer FF's model, it leads to a more fun atmosphere, but if I have to pay to play I might as well take a shot at the unique prize.

I've picked up a few...certainly not "everything" by any stretch. I like them for their durability and looks.
"Everyone pays $5 to enter, everybody gets something, and nobody walks away with something that alters the game play that others don't have access to".

Yeah, I'll take that option every time.

With this I am going to assume you missed most of what I said and how it is said. I run to make sure there is a game that is it. If I like a game I share it with people because that is how I am. If I dislike something I am more than willing to share. I don't spend my time #####ing about the lack of items I am am more expressing the fact of my discontent of being exclude from a business model where a company wants a venue and it's various resources to embrace a new game and make it sell while taking out a resource for said venue with no incentive. To make it short I see no reason to invest time and money into a game that I will not get to play in an event for prizes like everyone else but spend my time making sure people show up to these events and get the game going. Whether or not I take a prize if Wizkids is going to charge the venue I judge at $30 for Heroclix, AW and Dicemasters kits and then not include the judge in the cost of the dicemaster kit why should the venue then have to do something extra for the judge that was covered in previous kits?


That is the issue. If the venue is paying for a kit that gives prizes to winners and covers the judge and now the judge is being cut out why should the venue pay the same price PLUS more to run the same old events? That is what this is. Wizkids wants to sell a product, SELL support items to a venue and no seems to want the venue to cover the volunteer EXTRA so they still seem like the good guys.

I am sorry you are superior to everyone because you judge for no reason and except no prize at any given time because your time is plentiful but my pockets and time have limits. And at this point I am because your so much better you can drive down and run Dicemasters.




Yes because people who like to play in tournaments and spend time and money want to win just about nothing. People would prefer tournaments where you get a cool token and a nifty card instead of a LE ship or a prerelease of a new ship.



Oh wait.......... All of the Amidar stuff where people filled shops over and over again to get one of the 4 ships early because everyone there wanted the card not the Tie Defender or such right?