I got a message re: my question on Beast's moves, as well as some others. Unfortunately I never know is the 'authority'. Here's the post...relevant is my outwitting of Superman during movement (the whole purpose of Flash to me is portable outwit. argh!). if this is right (about Flash ) then we need to rethink this whole game.

If you're looking for clarification on a few things, in your latest move, the push click comes at the end of that figures action - so Beast would take the click immediately and lose outwit.

Both of your outwits in post 41 are also illegal.

Stealth cannot be outwitted unless you have an outwitted who can see through the stealth (via Superman or Ultimates team ability). Outwitting Gambit's stealth, even when adjacent doesn't work.

Outwit cannot take place mid-action. Flash must outwit before he begins his hypersonic action, or after he completes his hypersonic action, but not during. All the previous outwitting of Superman's charge looks like it was done incorrectly too.

Hope that helps.

Booper.

(NOT SURE WHY THE LAST TWO CANNOT HAPPEN BUT ITS THE BOTTOM LINE THAT'S IMPORTANT...GIMME YOUR INPUT)

I dunno about the Flash issue. I thought that I had read back when the new Indyclix rules came out that what you were doing with Flash was legal, but there could be something in the newer FAQs.

Nice to know I'm not crazy on the Stealth bit though. Reasoning being that Outwit says you have to draw LoF to the target, and you can never draw LoF to a character in Stealth. Even if you're adjacent. Same reason you can't use something like Running Shot or RCE on a Stealthed character, even from an adjacent square. Rules say you must be able to draw LoF to the target and Stealth prevents it.

I'll go check the Wizkids site for the latest FAQ

Closest I could find was the following:

"Note that the move option of Hypersonic Speed allows a character to make a close or ranged combat attack, not a close or ranged combat action. Powers that require close or ranged combat action, or a power action, to activate cannot be used with the move option of Hypersonic Speed."

But the according to the Powers and Abilities Card, Outwit does not cost an action to use, so that's kind of inconclusive. Not that I don't trust Booper. It's just that I thought I remembered reading that it could be done. But maybe it was just being debated when the new rules came into play. Perhaps a post to the Rules of Combat forum for an official ruling is in order.

HSS and Outwit

Hm, it sounds like Booper had the right of it. Does change things a bit, rather. How far do you want to back this thing up? I'd certainly like to take Firestorm's attack on Gambit away. Other than that, and maybe having Superman being able to Charge Quicksilver on my last turn, I don't think anything else really mattered.

Or does it mess you up to the point of redoing your team and starting over? Fair warning though, I might decide to make some changes of my own if that happens.

Well my first thought is: ugh, go back and start over. I soooooooooooooo don't wanna do that.

I'm frustrated about the three issues; Beast's outwitting stealth and Flash's portable outwit seem like they should be valid but it's clear that they're not. I guess at this point all I'm doing is whining.

So, to get back on a constructive track, I see 3 options.

A) Going back to redo post 41 and go from there. It's where Gambit is attacked. HOWEVER Flash did outwit Superman prior to that so errors exist before that post.

B) Go back to the beginning with the same characters

C) Go back with new characters

It's all your call since I, as usual, made the mistakes....just lemme know at least now I got the hang of the hill and who can attack/see who etc...whoo hoo!!!

Let's go with A. I think the only things Flash had Outwitted was Superman's charge and I had planned on softening Doomsday up with his heat vision before moving in anyway, so no harm done there. Redo the turn where Firestorm attacked and we'll go from there.

I need to look at this one since I'm out of sync on it. Probably won't be able to do this til tomorrow.

"Whoa! what was that," Kitty asked.

"Some sort of temporal flux," the professor replied in his best Captain Picard voice, looking at the Danger Room sensors. "It appears we've just jumped backwards several moments in time."

"Wasn't Rogue just here?"

"Technically, Rogue isn't here yet."

"Hey, y'all!"

"Rogue!"

"So what alls goin' on?"

"Well Phoenix just took down Doomsday and Quicksilver grabbed the top of the Hill. The red teams' been trying to hit him, but they haven't had a whole lotta luck so far."

Probably going to confuse you but I put both of our round 4 movements here, supposedly for clarity, my new round 5 is in bold.


M12@ Quicksilver
K9 Flash
J12 Atom
K12 Firestorm
I11 (1) Beast
M22@ Huntress
G14@ Phoenix





Magick @ Q9
Green Arrow Q12 (stealthed)
Gambit @ M16 (stealthed)
Hawkman Q14
Blue Beetle @ Q13
Superman P15 (w/HO)
Psylocke Q15









Round 5:


ATOM PERPLEXES FLASH'S DAMAGE TO 2, MOVES TO M13.

FLASH MOVES TO P11; ATTACKS ARROW, NEEDS 6, ROLLS 6. 2 to ARROW. HE ENDS AT M14 OUTWITTING SUPERMAN's STRENGTH.

BEAST TO L9, OUTWITS MAGIK'S RCE.

FIRESTORM to N13.



M12Quicksilver
M14@ Flash
M13@ Atom
N13@ Firestorm
L9@ (1) Beast
M22 Huntress
G14 Phoenix

"Whoa k," Kitty says, "What do we have here?"

"Looks like the green m an' ms are playin' barricade, shugah. Makin' a Quicksilver san'wich."

"Or close to it anyway. Wish I were there, always had a thing for his runner's legs."

"The big question is..what will the red team do next?"

For what it's worth, Magik doesn't have RCE to Outwit.

Superman drops his HO in P15, thanks to a sudden inexplicable weakness.

Gambit Perplexes up Superman's damage to 4

Superman uses his heat vision on Flash, Enhanced by Psylocke to 5 damage. AV10 on DV17. Needs a 7, rolls an 8. There's my lucky 8. Flash's Supersenses roll is 4. Not good enough. 5 damage to Flash.

Green Arrow will try for Firestorm, AV9 on DV16, needs a 7. Gets a 9, so Firestorm will take 2 clicks after Toughness.

Hawkman will Charge, carrying Blue Beetle with him. Hawkman to L14, Beetle in L13. From there Hawkman will attack Flash. AV8 against DV15. He needs a 7. He gets a 9. 2 more to the Flash and he's KO'd.

Magick Q9
Green Arrow @ Q12 (2 clicks)
Gambit M16 (stealthed)
Hawkman @ L14
Blue Beetle L13
Superman @ P15
Psylocke Q15

"And the Red Team responds with an all out assault on the Green Team's defensive position. Green Arrow hits Firestorm with an electro-shock arrow."

"That looks like that's gonna leave a bruise," Rogue commented.

"Probably, but it looks like the Flash is in real trouble. Superman's targeting him with his heat vision. Didn't have much effect on Doomsday, but we'll see what it does to the Flash. Flash zigs and zags to try to avoid it, but Superman's pretty fast himself. He's able to compensate and connects! And oh! Look out Flash!"

"Red Team ain't lettin' up on him one bit."

"You can say that again Rogue, now Hawkman's grabbed Blue Beetle, flown him over the defensive line and he's swooped down in a power dive at the already hurt Flash. He's down! Flash is down! And that's the first KO of one of the actual team members. What do you say to that Rogue?"

"It may be the first, but it ain't gonna be the last. Ah'm expectin' there's gonna be a whole lotta action in the next few minutes."

"That's for sure, Rogue. That's for sure."

Huntress will attack Psylocke. Needs 7. Rolls 6.

Phoenix will attack Hawkman and Blue Beetle. Needs 4, rolls 6 (2 3s). OK help me out here...her damage is 5 (rce with two targets). So 2 to Blue and 3 to Hawk. Knockback would happen to 1 I assume (Hawk) who hits the hill causing 1 more click. Yes? 2 to Blue (after toughness, 1) and 3 or 4 to Hawk.

Beast will outwit Illyana's shield for no reason whatsoever.

Quicksilver will attack Beetle. Atom will perplex his damage to 3. Needs 5, rolls 7. 3 to Beetle.

M12@ Quicksilver
M13 Atom
N13 (2) Firestorm
L9(1) Beast
M22@ Huntress
G14@ Phoenix

"Well startin' out the gate, the green team don't look so good. Huntress makes a hit on Psylocke but Betsy's moves out of it's way like she read her mind. Imagine that," Rogue says.

"True but Phoenix took a couple pieces out of Hawkman and Blue Beetle. Never heard a man cry like that! Of course even hurt Hawkman remains unabashdely defiant. The stud. Then, as if that wasn't enough Pietro gets all territorial and starts swingin' at Beetle. Ouch! The bruises that poor Beetle's gonna have in the morning!"

PS This is round 6!!!

Well, if you use RCE, you can't take more than one target. RCE requires that you focus your attack on just one (kind of makes sense). So you can do 5 points (and knockback) to either Beetle or Hawkman.

OR you can use your double arrows and split 3 damage between them, and both would take knockback. Beetle wouldn't really go anywhere - Atom blocks his path. Hawkman would. I didn't picture the hill as a solid wall though, more of a gradual incline, but it was something I didn't consider, so I'll give you that Hawkman would take the extra click for knockback if you want to do any of the damage to him.