It is not two abilities... It has to do with proficiencies...

A quote from the rule book.

Proficiencies:
Some proficiencies allow a cavalry unit to both move and attack using only one action. In these cases, the mount and the rider can use any special abilities they possess that require the kind of action given when they resolve the action, unless specifically stated otherwise. Cavalry unit proficiencies are listed below.

So a prof. like mounted charge uses a close combat action, you can therefore use any SA on the mount or rider that requires a close combat action on top of the prof.

Mounted Bound is the same thing, a ranged combat action, and therefore you can use any SA that requires a range combat action.

Not to difficult.

Not difficult, but idiotic. This is like: I can use bow very well, but if i sit on a horse, i shoot two times faster. Yes, it's possible but very likely. And the same goes for close combat. It's good to know that we won't use these rules in Hungary(at least not on the tourneys i know), like b/mb or the double invulnerability.

What you do is your choice, however, that doesn't make the rules any different.

I think it is kind of insulting to label things idiotic because you don't like them. This is a fantasy game after all, things don't have to be based on real-world physics, because it isn't the real world.

I didn't mean to insult, but this is just unnescessery power given to a few rider. And stacking abilities like Invulnerability or Magical Resistance is the same.

Aerensianic - Don't forget, this is the question that since the release of MK, that many people (myself included in the beginning,) cannot let go of... Reality vs Game Mechanics. The designers have created a mechanic that works for their game. Logically, if you wish to discuss reality, I'd point out that I haven't seen anyone riding a Dragon recently around town. Well, at least in MY reality!:D
Basically, you have to "unlearn what you have learned," about what would REALLY work when it comes to this game. Otherwise, you'll never truly enjoy it as much as you should.
Just trying to help.
Tal

Have you people ever played Goldeneye (classic N64)?

In Goldeneye you have no body armor but it still takes a ton of shots to kill you. This is not realistic, but it is extremely fun, unlike say Ghost Recon where 1 shot=1 kill.

Realistic DOESNT NECESSARILY MEAN FUN, PEOPLE.

Guys, this really isn't a thread for discussion whether Mounted Charge/Charge or Mounted Bound/Bound should work. It's a rules discussion about how it does work. Please start a thread in the appropriate area if you wish to discuss issues other than direct rules issues about it.

It's complicated and confusing enough for some to understand without adding the additional levels of dialog on top of it.

Thanks.

Wow.... wow... I'm pretty new to this game. About two months under my belt actually. But the third booster i opened had vorgoth, and the fourth had a famine avatar. So, i've wanted to learn how to win...bad. I joined a local 1000pt tourney with varatrix, valkalis, and vextha. And got killed in six turns by three blue sky dragons and three scalesworn all told dealing me 50 points of damage. Something's not right. Mounted charge charge counts for two actions though one might be following the "letter" of the rules. Here's why- imagine someone moves with the sky dragon as the mounted charge rules go, then attacks with the scalesworn. immediately they use the accepted resolution and "charge", attacking with the sky dragon. Now wait, that falls under the mounted charge rules, so i would guess that they could move again under the pretense that they were finally resolving the charge, but could again just attack as the mounted charge goes, ad infinitum since everyone seems to have forgotten what is required to resolve a close combat action....base contact.

Here's my beef, somebody show me in the rules where you can give any warrior, or more specifically any unit, two actions. Why? Because even though it's technically using one unit's special ability to accomplish an action as a proficiency, it still counts as two single combat actions since they aren't being stacked. Bear with me. If someone wanted to stack the mounted bound and bound, or mounted charge and charge, the actions would be resolved at exactly the same time...hence stacking. So if this #### is allowed to keep killing my solonavi uniques, i'd expect the sky dragon not in base contact to move full speed and base valkalis. Then instead of resolving only one attack as mounted charge would imply, i'd get served a double dish. When the dragon finishes the move part of the action, the mounted charge attack would be given to the scalesworn, and the charge attack would be given to the dragon. One action that resolves as two stacked cca's.

I must be ######## for thinking this makes sense. But tell me what you anyone thinks, please.

Wow.... wow... I'm pretty new to this game. About two months under my belt actually. But the third booster i opened had vorgoth, and the fourth had a famine avatar. So, i've wanted to learn how to win...bad. I joined a local 1000pt tourney with varatrix, valkalis, and vextha. And got killed in six turns by three blue sky dragons and three scalesworn all told dealing me 50 points of damage. Something's not right. Mounted charge charge counts for two actions though one might be following the "letter" of the rules. Here's why- imagine someone moves with the sky dragon as the mounted charge rules go, then attacks with the scalesworn. immediately they use the accepted resolution and "charge", attacking with the sky dragon. Now wait, that falls under the mounted charge rules, so i would guess that they could move again under the pretense that they were finally resolving the charge, but could again just attack as the mounted charge goes, ad infinitum since everyone seems to have forgotten what is required to resolve a close combat action....base contact.

Here's my beef, somebody show me in the rules where you can give any warrior, or more specifically any unit, two actions. Why? Because even though it's technically using one unit's special ability to accomplish an action as a proficiency, it still counts as two single combat actions since they aren't being stacked. Bear with me. If someone wanted to stack the mounted bound and bound, or mounted charge and charge, the actions would be resolved at exactly the same time...hence stacking. So if this #### is allowed to keep killing my solonavi uniques, i'd expect the sky dragon not in base contact to move full speed and base valkalis. Then instead of resolving only one attack as mounted charge would imply, i'd get served a double dish. When the dragon finishes the move part of the action, the mounted charge attack would be given to the scalesworn, and the charge attack would be given to the dragon. One action that resolves as two stacked cca's.

I must be ######## for thinking this makes sense. But tell me what you anyone thinks, please.

Wow.... wow... I'm pretty new to this game. About two months under my belt actually. But the third booster i opened had vorgoth, and the fourth had a famine avatar. So, i've wanted to learn how to win...bad. I joined a local 1000pt tourney with varatrix, valkalis, and vextha. And got killed in six turns by three blue sky dragons and three scalesworn all told dealing me 50 points of damage. Something's not right. Mounted charge charge counts for two actions though one might be following the "letter" of the rules. Here's why- imagine someone moves with the sky dragon as the mounted charge rules go, then attacks with the scalesworn. immediately they use the accepted resolution and "charge", attacking with the sky dragon. Now wait, that falls under the mounted charge rules, so i would guess that they could move again under the pretense that they were finally resolving the charge, but could again just attack as the mounted charge goes, ad infinitum since everyone seems to have forgotten what is required to resolve a close combat action....base contact.

Here's my beef, somebody show me in the rules where you can give any warrior, or more specifically any unit, two actions. Why? Because even though it's technically using one unit's special ability to accomplish an action as a proficiency, it still counts as two single combat actions since they aren't being stacked. Bear with me. If someone wanted to stack the mounted bound and bound, or mounted charge and charge, the actions would be resolved at exactly the same time...hence stacking. So if this #### is allowed to keep killing my solonavi uniques, i'd expect the sky dragon not in base contact to move full speed and base valkalis. Then instead of resolving only one attack as mounted charge would imply, i'd get served a double dish. When the dragon finishes the move part of the action, the mounted charge attack would be given to the scalesworn, and the charge attack would be given to the dragon. One action that resolves as two stacked cca's.

I must be ######## for thinking this makes sense. But tell me what anyone thinks, please.

longinux - Please don't take this wrong, as I'm just trying to help.
Read back through this Thread from the beginning. Your question is answered pretty thoroughly. Then, if you still don't understand, repost your question and we'll see if we can clarify what you are missing.
Just please keep in mind also that this was a HUGE issue when it came out, and many people didn't understand it seemeingly just because they didn't like it. So my brevity in this Thread is merely an attempt to keep a finally sealed can of worms from being reopened.
Tal

oh the can is still open, we're just not supposed to complain about MC/C or MB/B on this particular thread

So where do we go complain about it?

so much for a rebuttle...
I'm not quite so sure that newbie means illiterate. i read through everything before. Nothing explains nonstacked double cca, I just want to know why the way I put it wouldn't work, or better yet, what's being done to FAQ this monstrousity of a loophole. I'm not looking to complain, that'll amount to nothing. This should get changed to a set standard by which anyone might be able to read up on it. As it sits, I"m going against my open-rule nonruleslawyers grain and advocating that since no actual wizkids text makes note of mcc as a direct ability, then it shall not be allowed. Simply one or the other, but not both. The day something gets published by wizkids, this whole thing goes on the shelf. And that's fine by me.

I don't understand your worries, longinux. MCC is a very powerful feature with sky dragons, however not entirly impossible to tackle. I don't think by not-allowing this rule, you make the game better, on the contrary: sky dragons become too expensive.

For explanation: stacking MC and C are clearly explained in this thread and in the rulebook. Resolving stacked abilities do not happen at the same time, but one after the other. So first charge, then mounted charge (or the other way around). This means "two actions", in fact it is only one action with two resolvements.

Have fun in this game. As newbie you will loose at first a lot, because of combo's that you haven't seen yet. But after a while, when you start seeing tackles for it (each rule has a dark side, you know ;-) !), you can build armies that compete better and start giving damage...