The "Mounted Charge trick" has probably caused more questions than anything else in the new set. Most don't understand it and there are a lot of misunderstandings about how it works. I hope to make it a little bit more clearer.

The entire principle is based on a single concept in the Dark Riders rules dealing with Mounted Proficiencies (note this is slightly different from the published rules because this has been updated in the FAQ).

Because of this, a mount may choose to use Charge as its single special ability when using Mounted Charge because both Mounted Charge and Charge use the same kind of action (a close combat action). In theory, a rider could also use Charge with Mounted Charge, but no riders have Charge, to date.

So, we know that a mount can use Charge when using Mounted Charge. What does that mean? It was debated for a while when the "Mounted Charge/Charge trick" was mentioned in a sneak preview.

So, both abilities allow you to move and make a close combat attack. Mounted Charge requires you to use the mount's movement and either the rider's or mount's dial to resolve the attack. Charge requires you to use the Charge figures dial for both movement and attack.

Both abilities happen at the same time, so the person whose turn it is gets to determine the order. You can use the Charge ability either first or second, attacking with the mount's dial. You can move, attack with the mount's dial, move and attack with the rider's dial (you can also use the mount's). You can do this in the reverse order, also.

An important consideration is that you must attack after the first movement. If you don't, you can't use the second sequence. Both abilities require a move and attack (although the move can be moving to your current spot), and if you don't attack you can't use that ability at all. This means no moving 28" with the Elemental Freeholds' Dragon and attacking.

Because of this rule, you do not need to breakaway from a warrior you attack with your first attack. First, you aren't using a move action, secondly, you aren't being given the action while in base contact with an opposing figure.

Finally, there is a rare combination, Mounted Bound/Bound. Using the same considerations or above, you can use Valkyrie Tazia to use Mounted Bound and combine that with Bound. To date, no other riders and no mounts have bound.

Because Valkyrie Tazia is the warrior with Bound, you must use her movement to resolve the movement of the Bound portion of the action. Because Mounted Bound is slightly different from Mounted Charge (the rider must make the attack), both attacks will be made with Tazia's dial. One of the moves will use the mounts dial (the Mounted Bound portion), the other will use Tazia's dial (the Bound portion).

Also this is still somewhat complex, I hope this clears up a lot of confusions. Feel free to point out any errors or inconsistancies in this.

Thanks for the clarification, it make things much clearer, but it still doesn't make sense why this should happen, effectively this makes mounts with charge undercosted compared with the same mount without.

Also does this require 2 actions or 1?

The first point is debateable. Indeed, this might give a few skittish figures a reason to be used (as a couple of them have Charge). I played a game with Nephreta on the EF Sky Dragon and only got to use the Charge/Mounted Charge once. Hardly an expansive playtest, but I don't think it's as powerful as some fear (that doesn't mean it's not powerful, mind you).

Just one action. That's the entire point. You get to use Charge as your special ability when you use mounted charge.

Hurray for alleviated pressure!

Good job DBlizzard. I've tried to do the same (post rules clarifications), but nobody listens to the good ol' Vapor Gecko. It must be the nifty axe head you have;).

You are forgetting that one could also use mounted bound/charge getting a figure into shooting range and then basing, possibly allowing someone to move 20"+. Yes you can't use something like Mage Blast, but you can still shoot and base a figure 24" away with a EF Sky Dragon and Flame Priestess.

I was told that one of the rules in the FAQ stated that you could not use any of the speed special abilites of a rider while it was on a mount, which would negate Tazia's bound ability while she was on her mount. I cannot seem to access the FAQ at the moment (it just wont load... I'll probly try it again tomorrow) so I was wondering if someone could tell me if that is correct, or if the Bound/Mounted Bound combo does work.

Xyon, that's confusing. It sounds like you're saying you could Mounted Bound, then Charge (or Mounted Charge and then Bound). You can't. You can only use a close combat action required ability with Mounted Charge, and you can only use a ranged combat action required ability with Mounted Bound.

AterAngelus, there is no such rule AFAIK. In fact the ruling from the Mage Knight rules arbitrator was that Tazia on a Bound click would work as follows: Mounted Bound, moving the mount's speed and firing with Tazia; then Bound, moving Tazia's speed and firing again.

quote:
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Some proficiencies allow a cavalry unit to both move and attack using only one action. In these cases, the mount or the rider may use any single special ability it possesses that requires the kind of action given when it resolves the action.
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Ahhhh......there it is.......I could not figure out why this whole thing would work, because of the whole "Give this warrior an action....." ruling. But there's the loophole that allows it. Ok, now I'm all good.

Dblizzard, thanks for the clear explanation of this mechanic. This should help answer a lot of questions.

Your right Spudkin. My bad. It was late at night and my brain was already scrambled from stomach flu.

Let's see if I have this right:

You declare your intentions while not in base contact with an opponent to Mounted charge with charge.

You can move the mount's full distance into base contact with an opponent and then attack with either the mount's or the rider's dial. (Mounted charge)

Then, you can move (without having to break away) up to the mount's full distance and attack with the mount's dial. (Charge)

So it is :
Move via mount's dial
Close Combat attack with either mount or rider's dial
Move via the mount's dial
Close Combat attack with the mount's dial

Right ?

FRED

AterAngelus, I think you're thinking of the fact that when you give a cavalry unit a move order, you must use the mount's dial to resolve the movement. You get its speed value and SA, but cannot use any of the speed special abilities of the rider. Bound can be used because it doesn't work with a move order.

Now will someone explain how Overwatch will work with mounted bound, especially if both rider and mount have it (Magus Tivon on firecat)?

Thanks for the clarification, like I said for some reason the stupid FAQ wouldnt load that night...

The most recent ruleing that I heard was that on one turn you give the mounted unit an action for overwatch. Then on the next turn you resolve that action by mounted bounding. Then, wherever you end up after the mounted bound you havent been given an action yet so you may give your figure an action this turn to do whatever you wish. It would be really mean if you had a unit that had both overwatch and charge, although offhand I cant think of any combos that do that.

Overwatch with mounted bound:
Turn 1: Give mounted bound order and over watch, move mount and place over watch token
Turn 2: During Command phase you can make a ranged combat attack, no extra movement. You can give the cavalry unit another action this turn

After re-reading this about 4,905,993 and one half times, I think I get it.

I don't think I like it all that much. It surpasses some of the basic rule mechanics ... the breakaway rule, and one friggin move per turn (per figure). The way I figure once you swing that sword, flex that claw, or go pokey-poke with that spear, hit or miss (thus resolving the attack) that fig is done.

It's not too powerful, it can be countered and I have beat two attempts sofar, but I still think it's a bit under-handed.

Like the original Scorpium Yo-Yo trick but a bit more hopped up. That was a rather clever trick but also took two moves from two different figures. .. Big Bound .. gone the way of the dodo.

Both this Charge\MountedC and eventually Bound\MountedB I have a feeling will be banned just to close that loophole.
I don't think the rules writers or game concept designers intended this tactic to exist .. it was serendipity that brought it into light. .. Some clever player was the first to use it, and I'm betting the first realms question about it came from the guy he used it against.

What I would like to see in future rule books is more clear cut examples of game play specifically involving special abilities .. Not so much as to what you can do with them but what they do not allow.
The loudest debates on this forum or any game forum I've seen is over the wordings of rules and abilities. The rules specify what you can do with whatever, but never mention what you can't do.
Biggest arguement being "It doesn't say you can't do that."
( The rules also don't say that player #2 sitting to the direct left of the nearest refridgerator must sing "Sweet Home Alabama" during his command phrase, unless he is an odd number of metric yards away for the nearest forign car. In that case Player #1 must run around the table three times and declare himself (or herself) the Potato Chip Chicken-Head Man of Kalamazoo ... so are we expected to do this just because it does not say we don't have to? )

... What I would really like to know is how many of you are now going to sing "Sweet Home Alabama" in homage to this interpretation during your command phase .. I want a dime for each time that rule is utalized .. unless a pig goes to Castle Dracula at midnight during a full moon playing a banjo, then it's free ...

But anyway ...

I just don't think this combination is all that fair. Not to other players, just not fair to the game mechanics. It should be one or the other, not both. One figure should not be given the privelage of what equates to two moves.

Am I just annoyed at not being clever enough to discover one of these tricky tactics?
The jury is out.