They used to work very closely with us here. They stopped because our attitude sucks.

I agree. I don't think the response to both changes sets a good precedent for future feedback.

While I think it is great that Wizkids listened, I'm concerned with how quickly they changed it based on the feedback generated, in less than 24 hours, on a single website. Not to mention the victory attitude seen here after they changed it.

That attitude makes me think this game won't be able to change enough to grab the attention of new players, because a vocal minority doesn't like change and will openly resist it at every turn, even more so since they see the card change as a victory they helped to win.

I would have much preferred Wizkids come out and acknowledge the complaints and say they are looking into alternatives while letting the change sink in and allowing more time for players to become aware of it.

@elfholme (one thing you said resonated, and I am too lazy to quote and edit)

Back in my Star Wars Miniatures day, the official forums were just as doom and gloom. There is a good reason that a lot of companies tend to downplay the ultra hardcore players that usually post there.
In addition, I was always thanking WotC for making such a great game, most probably considered me just a brown-noser.

That being said, this place is an obvious soundboard for that kind of pessimism, and also a place to commiserate.

I have always hated resources, and have despised their inclusion in the game. I understand that it is laziness and necessity (Wizkids puts out too much product that is never balanced, so they need an ultra-competitive tiny cost item to balance for them).
Nevertheless, even if every person on the realms was negative about the non-clix stuff that gets put out, I don't think any change would come from that.

I do believe that we have to let people have their anger at their own part of this game. I don't think I have lost faith in humanity or this website because of it.

Leaving the Dial on the Card, makes no sense when they can turn the dials before the game to see what they are. They need to learn how to turn the dial anyway, which is confusing to a new player who has never used them before.

If they want to make the game easier, do not change the design of the Card, and leave the Dial Off it and do the following:

Add the Team Ability Symbols and definitions to the PAC Card, and also add a quick guide to the PAC or as a separate chart in the Starter, that shows you what Close Combat and Ranged Combat Actions and Attacks can be used with the Power and Move Actions. Not having these TA definitions and this other quick start guide, in a Starter Set, is what makes the game harder for new players to understand and learns.

I don't think the attitude of the 'realms sucked in this situation. There might have been a few trolls here and there, but what I read mostly consisted of an overwhelming majority of the players here pushing back on an idea that killed an aspect of the game they enjoyed. Is the honest countering of a bad idea being super negative? I don't think so.

When I was judging and teaching new kids to play, the biggest thing I saw was that they were trying to use powers on the card, but not showing on the dial. I've taught around 20 people to play, and no matter how many times I told them to look at what the dial shows, they still went with the card for the first couple weeks.

This change does not help in alleviating that issue. If anything, it just makes it worse because they will not looking at the physical dial at all.

There's also the not mentioned enough cheating aspect. In the time I've been playing, it has always been considered cheating to look at any click on your dial that you are not currently on. Why are we all of a sudden fine with being able to do that?

The backlash from some players here, and Wizkids caving to it, leaves such a bad taste in my mouth...

New cards = making everyone feel like the old cards are obsolete. You just let Wizkids scam you into buying all of your characters... AGAIN.

The problem is that a large majority of the players here have more vested in the game then the new players Wizkids want to bring in, or the casual players Wizkids wants to encourage to play more often in the organized play environment. Such players tend to selfishly protect their own interests, especially if they feel those interests give them an advantage over others.

I think that is ultimately what is behind the resistance to the change. Those players only want to preserve the game state as it relates to them and could care less about opening the game up to more players.

A lot of Heroclix players don't use the realms (I was surprised by the number of players I encountered who have heard of it, but don't participate here). Because of that, I don't think HCrealms represents the true customer/player base of the game and Wizkids shouldn't think it does. To do so could hamper any thing they are putting into place to increase their player base and ultimately their sales.

Yep. In other words, selfish.

As a pretty casual player myself, I think the change would have been bad because it completely kills the suspense aspect of the game, which is a large part of what makes it fun. It has nothing to do with wanting an advantage over new players. In fact, I'd counter that having all the dial information out there for the power gamers stacks the deck more in their favor, because they're going to use the dial information to much greater advantage than a newbie who still doesn't understand the info they're looking at, anyway. No need to worry about how to split damage on a ranged attack, or knowing whether or not to save outwit for after an attack. It would have made the point-and-click inanity of the more straightforward power pieces more prevalent.

What a new player needs is someone who is going to walk them through some practice games and patiently explain all this stuff to them. If they don't have that, the dial info on the card ain't going to make a lick of difference, and it's not going to keep them in the game.

I would argue that most power gamers are already using that information by memorizing the dials of the biggest threat figures. That is one of the strategies they employ to "stack the deck" in their favor along with effects that prevent the opponent from actually getting to play.

So the dials on the cards would allow the newbie to know a little more about his opponent's figures before he gets destroyed in that super competitive environment, anyway.

It also gives the lesser power gamers--not the ones who win Worlds, but the local guy at the shop who likes to pwn noobs but hasn't gotten quite to the level of memorizing everybody's dials--a leg up, too. He's still better at using the information given to him with the dial info than the newbie, and he's still more of the reason that the newbie quits, not the guy winning Worlds at Origins. The newbie doesn't even know about that level yet.

That all depends on the environment and the individuals, it is not the fault of the card. Those types of environments and people will do that with whatever is at their disposal.

We're getting to the part where we sort of agree, and what I was trying to communicate earlier: a positive environment matters more than the info on the card for getting new players into the game. I was just also trying to point out that suspense is a great part of the fun, one that all the dial info on the card kills utterly.