It is an odd thing. I mean, geez, how many Mack Bolan novels are there? A few hundred? Yet most Punisher fans probably never heard of him.

I'm more of a Michael Meyers fan...inside out Shatner mask and all. heh heh

Catman became huge when they stole Kazar's gig who was just Tarzan when Marvel wasn't allowed to use Tarzan. John Byrne gave Lex Luthor the Kingpin's business man gig to make him more believable and people probably won't want to believe this but Catwoman didn't become a catburgler until long after The Black Cat was doing it.

Black Lightning began his career ripping off Luke Cage. I don't know when they actually began giving him lightning powers. Richard dragon and the Bronze Tiger were kneejerk reactions from DC to Shang Chi and Iron Fist and how about Claw the Unconquered, who was essentially Conan with a bearpaw on one arm.

And we also have the Thanos/Darkseid connection.

There's strong similarities; I'll agree, but I think Thanos' death obsession gives him a pass. I can't see Darkseid being devoted to anyone except Darkseid.

Yeah, I have to agree. I believe Starlin when he says he came up with the character while going through a psychology class and learning of Thantopsis -- a death-urge. Is it possible some visual design elements may have been influenced by Kirby's creation? Sure. We'll likely never really know. Conceptually, though, I see substantial, fundamental differences.

There's my reason for listing it.

I, too, believe Starlin but think maybe a bit more of Darkseid is in Thanos than he cares to admit/realize. Thanos is Darkseid turned up to 11. Darkseid wants the anti-life equation (heck, even his world is Apocalypse), Thanos wants Death.

Now, granted, through the years things become blurred as to which traits may have started with whom but I don't see them as that dissimilar.

The MAIN difference I see between the two is that Darkseid is domineering and Thanos is submissive when it comes down to it. Darkseid wants to rule/control, Thanos wants to please Death. How's that for a twisted perspective? lol

Me too.

And it's only a Rare figure. Amadeus Cho.

I had to take care of some more laundry, then go retrieve Nick from work. Tonight it's going to be light, New Year's Eve fare: Sandwiches from the panini-maker, chips, salsa, pico de gallo, cheese, crackers, summer sausage -- mostly hit-as-one wishes party foods. At the moment it just looks as if it'll be Nick, Michelle and I, and they'll probably just spend the time mostly on their own. Trav and Anna will soon be off to a party.

Me, I have more than enough reading and writing to do, along with maybe yet a minor organizing project or two here before the year ends. In general I've found for most of my life that I prefer quiet, peaceful passages from one year to the next. Parties don't suit me.

Anyway, back to say probably all I have to say about Darkseid and Thanos:
I can't say that I've really delved into what passes for historical writing on comics when it came to Kirby's later creations, but nothing in what Jack did - what he tended to draw on - had me thinking these had the same origins.

For my money:

Darkseid was Kirby's quest for a new ultimate evil. Somewhere between a cosmic Hitler and a new god of evil.

It helps to keep in mind that what Kirby manifested as the New Gods - the worlds of New Genesis and Apokolips - was a reworking of what Jack originally had in mind for Marvel as a post-Ragnarok succession to the Asgardian pantheon of Thor, and upon more thought (and the knowledge that the owners weren't going to okay that) later thought to rework it for the Inhumans, but when he realized he wasn't going to get a fair shake at Marvel (a position with better pay, authority and especially long-term financial security) he kept the ideas to himself until he jumped to DC.

The search for an anti-life equation was simply this ultimate, cosmic dictator's search for something that would kill the human spirit of free will. Would crush it into abject subservience.

Starlin formed Thanos around the concept of Thanatopsis. A psychological urge toward death. A deep desire and longing for it. Personifying it, she became an actual object of amorous desire for Thanos, who he created as a being so unlike his family and ancestors that he was alien to them, and them to him. He felt no kinship with them, and so when he fixated on this female personification of death he grew to focus himself with a dedication at Bruce Wayne-to-Batman level into becoming her suitor. That became his focus, his sole reason for living. His mania.

So, really, while I can maybe see some visual aspects creeping into the design I don't believe there's a conceptual link between the two. I see each character as coming from and going to distinctly different places, at least as originally conceived.

Now, having said all that, allow me to backpedal a little, and possibly lend more credence to what you're saying, Jack. Starlin has said that he was in some respects inspired by what Jack had done over at DC with the New Goda, but denies that Thanos was intended as any sort of Darkseid analogue by him.

Much depends upon whether or not one believes that Jim Starlin had the character's arc in mind when he introduced him in Iron Man #55 that he did a very short time later as we got to know him in Captain Marvel 25-33, where he's flanked by death and his back story and true goal began to emerge. In that very first appearance he shows up, presenting himself as a scheming future monarch for Earth and on into the universe, and at that stage there wasn't the hints that he had more than a standard conquering villain's ambitions.

Starlin said that he came up with the concept while in psych classes after leaving military service and before seeking work in comics, so I think the concept's as he has expressed it. He was new to working in comics, though, so he handled him initially within more standard comics villain lines in Iron Man, only cutting loose with the cosmic, etc. once he had him over in Captain Marvel, where he'd been given license to do so much more.

As originally conceived, Thanos was much thinner, looking more like Metron than any other New God. It was editor Roy Thomas who told him to beef him up, and make him look more like Darkseid. Jim enjoyed the first bulking up so much that he nudged it up a bit more over the next couple arcs of appearances.

So, yes, visually there's a connection, but I think they're coming from very different places in terms of character and intent.

Now, though, it's time for me to take care of what I'm going to do with the food, clear all the clutter (from some searching and rough organizing I was doing today) off my bed, and remake it with all of the freshly washed and dried sheets, etc. After that, I'll decide what I want to do next.

I got very little sleep - much less than three hours - and while I'm in a reasonably good zone now I could easily find myself crashing a couple hours from now. If I'm getting something done and/or enjoying the time, great, but I'm finally getting mature enough to not just force myself to stay awake because I don't want to miss something.

Wow. That's pretty darn good. I've lost track -- is this all you're shy for the formal, complete set, or all you're missing from the list of pieces you want from the set?

I enjoyed reading the comparisons! But this part made me chuckle and, I have to say, it's pretty darn accurate.

Heh. Sorry for the ramble. It's all extemporaneous, first-draft stuff.

Boiling it down, I see there core motivations as different. Thanos was conceived as a character who, well, wanted to have picnics with and jump Death's bones. Darkseid was much more focused on the death of hope, free will and the human spirit.

I know Bill's doing another pair of 12-hour shifts this weekend, so he's probably not going to be able to do much more than give the passing of the year a sedate nod.

Hopefully no one's plans involve seeking the death of anything more dire than the contents of a bottle. Of those still around so far... any plans for tonight?

heh heh...no worries. Just sitting around chatting about cosmic-type conquerors. We are allowed to ramble. My first thought about the "cosmic Hitler" comment was: "I wonder if that's going to show up in a Mel Brooks film?"

No plans whatsoever. The passing from one year to the next has become far less of a big deal as the years have gone on. I'm just happy to be home from what was a not-so-great day of work, and looking toward two more full days off from both jobs.

I haven't even told Annette I have Monday off yet. It is my own little joyous secret surprise that I plan to pop on her sometime tomorrow.

Cool! A good surprise, especially if it can free you up for a more relaxed roll through the time off -- freeing you up for something fun for the family.

Tonight and the next two days are what remains of my time off, too. At this point I'm only aiming to use them rather than just let them pass. I'll have to get a little more specific than that, though, if I want this to work.